What happened to LDS apologist Doug Marshall?

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_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

bcspace wrote:A political liberal equates to an antiMormon is not a clear stance?


No, all you have done is proclaim your supposed truth. You have argued for nothing. You have not explained how it is true. You have not backed up any claims. We have provided several counter examples, and all you can do is nitpick on age or define as anti-Mormon anyone who criticizes something the Church does at any point in time, like your attack on Harry Reid. All you're doing is weaseling around. You have no solid argument.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

A political liberal equates to an antiMormon is not a clear stance?

No


Well, when you have finished stalling, let me know.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
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Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

bcspace wrote:Well, when you have finished stalling, let me know.


When you argue something, let me know.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Well, when you have finished stalling, let me know.

When you argue something, let me know.


I'll repeat....Political liberalism equates to antiMormonism because of issues like socialism, gay marriage, and abortion. Take it or leave it. If you leave it, I'll just assume you agree.

You could also show which of Hugh Nibley's views you think are politically liberal in today's terms. Since I'm sure you don't know anything on this yet, I'll be happy to give you some more time. Actually, I'm sure you could find something, but I don't see how that would help your case. You'll have to show that such is not contrary to LDS doctrine.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

bcspace wrote: Take it or leave it. If you leave it, I'll just assume you agree.


As people walk away in boredom, bcspace tells the world triumphantly:

"I can go on talking longer than you. If I'm the last one to stop talking, I win!"
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

Chap wrote:
bcspace wrote: Take it or leave it. If you leave it, I'll just assume you agree.


As people walk away in boredom, bcspace tells the world triumphantly:

"I can go on talking longer than you. If I'm the last one to stop talking, I win!"


Exactly. He enters with a pronouncement, and leaves with a laundry list, failing, of course, to explain how the list proves what he claims. Obviously he is either too lazy, or simply incapable, of making an argument.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Trevor
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Post by _Trevor »

bcspace wrote:I'll repeat....Political liberalism equates to antiMormonism because of issues like socialism, gay marriage, and abortion. Take it or leave it. If you leave it, I'll just assume you agree.


Your statement is absurd on its face. You assume that faithful members of the LDS Church must agree with every position the Church takes on every issue. You also assume, incorrectly, that every liberal must subscribe to a particular laundry list of causes. While I agree that many do share a lot of these views, they do not all share them. Finally, you construe anti-Mormonism so broadly as to include many people who know very little about Mormonism or don't even have it on their radar screen.

bcspace wrote:You could also show which of Hugh Nibley's views you think are politically liberal in today's terms. Since I'm sure you don't know anything on this yet, I'll be happy to give you some more time. Actually, I'm sure you could find something, but I don't see how that would help your case. You'll have to show that such is not contrary to LDS doctrine.


Nibley was very tough on the growing disparity between haves and have-nots in the world. He considered it sinful for people to amass more wealth than they needed, and thought that they should put their excess to worthy, humanitarian use. This growing disparity between the mega-wealthy and the poor is a major theme in today's liberal rhetoric. It is entirely consistent with the gospel.

I guess your certainty was about as poorly based as your crappy non-argument.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Take it or leave it. If you leave it, I'll just assume you agree.

As people walk away in boredom, bcspace tells the world triumphantly:

"I can go on talking longer than you. If I'm the last one to stop talking, I win!"


Simple debate logic. If you can't argue your side, the other side wins.

Your statement is absurd on its face. You assume that faithful members of the LDS Church must agree with every position the Church takes on every issue.


I did not say that. I said several times that the more one disbelieves, the less faithful one is.

You also assume, incorrectly, that every liberal must subscribe to a particular laundry list of causes.


Political parties and candidates have such laundry lists. I seem to recall mentioning a certain political party. Are the "causes" I listed not considered by most (if not all) left wing?

Finally, you construe anti-Mormonism so broadly as to include many people who know very little about Mormonism or don't even have it on their radar screen.


LDS doctrine is just as "broad". Alma 5:38-39 for example. Can you list any left wing policy that does not conflict with LDS doctrine?

Nibley was very tough on the growing disparity between haves and have-nots in the world. He considered it sinful for people to amass more wealth than they needed, and thought that they should put their excess to worthy, humanitarian use. This growing disparity between the mega-wealthy and the poor is a major theme in today's liberal rhetoric. It is entirely consistent with the gospel.


And conservative values. The difference is how does the left wing go about solving these problems? Do you have any examples that do not conflict with LDS doctrine? What were the ways Nibley proposed, if any? If what he proposed is consistent with LDS doctrine, he would in all likelyhood not be viewed as a political liberal today.

I guess your certainty was about as poorly based as your crappy non-argument.


When you provide some actual examples for your case, we might have something to argue about.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Trevor
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Posts: 7213
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Post by _Trevor »

bcspace wrote:LDS doctrine is just as "broad". Alma 5:38-39 for example. Can you list any left wing policy that does not conflict with LDS doctrine?


Alma 5:38-39 is not about anti-Mormonism. There is no point in holding an argument with you about issues concerning liberalism, conservatism, anti-Mormonism, and the like, if you allow this ridiculously broad leeway to define things as it suits you in the moment. I see that I have been invited to a snipe hunt, not an argument. Thanks, but no thanks.

bcspace wrote:What were the ways Nibley proposed, if any?


Whatever he proposed, he was willing to campaign for a post-WWII Democrat, which means he was most likely not opposed to the redistribution of wealth through an aggressive, progressive tax. The man was a liberal, and he was certainly not your brand of conservative.

bcspace wrote:When you provide some actual examples for your case, we might have something to argue about.


You have provided less than nothing. All you have done is to quibble with my evidence. I am not going to play endless games with you as you invite me to disprove something you never made a case for in the first place. Make any case, and I will be glad to discuss it with you.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Chap
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Post by _Chap »

bcspace wrote:
Take it or leave it. If you leave it, I'll just assume you agree.

As people walk away in boredom, bcspace tells the world triumphantly:

"I can go on talking longer than you. If I'm the last one to stop talking, I win!"


Simple debate logic. If you can't argue your side, the other side wins.


In a real debate, whether in a legislature or a debating club, one side gets to speak for a limited period then the other does. There may be further speeches, plus some contributions from the floor. Then it stops and there is a vote that tells us who won.

bcspace's interminable one-line quibbling is not the way debates are allowed to proceed in any serious context, and his idea of what constitutes winning is, shall we say, his own very special view. He posts in the same way that boring, confused and obsessive people inflict their tedious talk (one cannot often call it argument) on others in bars and, if one is very unlucky, some forms of long-distance transport. Such people say to themselves as their victims finally make their escape "Yup. They all have to give up in the end. None of them can answer my arguments. I win every time" ...
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