Mad Viking wrote:God wants people to simply have faith that he prefers faith to intellectual knowledge.
YES!!!! Though I think once you have faith the other often follows. You yourself said that the knowledge of God doesn't help. Faith does. Faith impels to action. It urges you to do what God says.
My experience is quite the opposite. The higher the zeal in faith, the lower the levels of knowledge and general curiosity about the world. Faith does not lead to anything but more faith.
Mad Viking wrote:God wants people to simply have faith that he prefers faith to intellectual knowledge.
YES!!!! Though I think once you have faith the other often follows. You yourself said that the knowledge of God doesn't help. Faith does. Faith impels to action. It urges you to do what God says.
My experience is quite the opposite. The higher the zeal in faith, the lower the levels of knowledge and general curiosity about the world. Faith does not lead to anything but more faith.
Our scriptures do have a warning about zeal without knowledge. We warn people not to follow that route. Not sure how it's God's fault that some people ignore the counsel he has given.
I should add that my experience is mostly the opposite though there are of course exceptions. Those exceptions (in my experience) tend to be manic-depressive members in that they zealously give their all for a time and then drop off before repeating the cycle. It's also been my experience that these people develop faith in odd things peripheral to the Church and lose focus on where their faith should be.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote: Okay, God sucks because people choose misery? .
People are not choosing misery dude! They are choosing religions or intellectual systems that make the most sense to them using all that nature (or God) has given them.
Mormonism is a weird fringe religion which has existed for 150 years during which time it has had only an insignificant membership. Meanwhile human beings have existed for at least 100,000 years.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
The Nehor wrote: Okay, God sucks because people choose misery? .
People are not choosing misery dude! They are choosing religions or intellectual systems that make the most sense to them using all that nature (or God) has given them. Mormonism is a weird fringe religion which has existed for 150 years during which time it has had only an insignificant membership. Meanwhile human beings have existed for at least 100,000 years.
Dude, yes they are. Have you looked outside lately?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote: Our scriptures do have a warning about zeal without knowledge. We warn people not to follow that route. Not sure how it's God's fault that some people ignore the counsel he has given.
It's God's fault because His instruction is warped, His delivery is awful, His grammar is poor, His will is fickle, His principles are inconsistent, His pedagogy is questionable, His morals are low, His temper is uneven and He needs a fact checker.
Besides all of that, his word is indistinguishable from common lunacy. His "peers" are palm readers, goat entrails and chicken bones.
John Larsen wrote:It's God's fault because His instruction is warped, His delivery is awful, His grammar is poor, His will is fickle, His principles are inconsistent, His pedagogy is questionable, His morals are low, His temper is uneven and He needs a fact checker.
Besides all of that, his word is indistinguishable from common lunacy. His "peers" are palm readers, goat entrails and chicken bones.
It's amazing how many LDS have had an easy time figuring out what he wants and who he is with some study and prayer. Maybe God is not the problem here.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
John Larsen wrote:It's God's fault because His instruction is warped, His delivery is awful, His grammar is poor, His will is fickle, His principles are inconsistent, His pedagogy is questionable, His morals are low, His temper is uneven and He needs a fact checker.
Besides all of that, his word is indistinguishable from common lunacy. His "peers" are palm readers, goat entrails and chicken bones.
It's amazing how many LDS have had an easy time figuring out what he wants and who he is with some study and prayer. Maybe God is not the problem here.
I am more amazed at the disagreement between the faithful who employed the same method. How is it that Orson Pratt, Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith found it so difficult following the same method. They had not only study and prayer, they had special keys that give them direct access.
John Larsen wrote:How is it that Orson Pratt, Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Bruce McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith found it so difficult following the same method.
They didn't. They all seemed to do just fine to me. I have no way of knowing their eternal reward but I hope they all found the exaltation they sought.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:If I could prove to every critic here that the LDS faith is accurate and that God exists do you really think they would all start doing their Home Teaching and spend the rest of their lives trying to bring their lives into conformity with God's will? I don't. What good will their membership and belief/intellectual acceptance do? None at all. What harm could it do? Lots. I don't think the Saints really want hundreds and thousands of people clogging up our records who join simply because they think our God is real. Think of the Home and Visiting Teaching issues.......
I heartily disagree with this, Nehor. I think the majority of us here would follow God if we thought God was real. Most of us at one point DID follow God. We don't now for the simple fact that we don't believe he exists.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:can you imagine if he gave this power to some of the people you've met on the street? (shudder)
Yeah, they would probably drown the entire population of the world, and cause billions to die of starvation, and let disease run rampant, and DEMAND worship or else the punishments will be swift and harsh, and....
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo