Bye Runtu

[_Dr. Shades]

As I said, I don't like who I am when I let people get to me.

Some people flourish under adversity. I'll bet you're even better than normal when people have gotten to you.

[_beastie]

You realize that Wheat is purposefully trying to push your buttons, right? If you leave, then you're giving him exactly what he wants. You're essentially handing him the trophy and telling him that he did indeed best you.

My personal philosophy is that it'll be a cold day in Hell before any Mormon on Earth, Heaven, or Hell can intimidate me off a message board. They day I allow a Mormon to intimidate me off a message board is the day I put a bullet into my own brain.

For God's sake, shades, it's just a message board. If someone thinks they "win" something by bullying someone away from a freakin' message board, that person is utterly pathetic.

People always have the responsibility to decide if any given activity is productive, healthy, and useful in their life. Who cares if someone at pathetic as wheat thinks he "wins"? Runtu has to take care of himself. Shades, did it ever occur to you that maybe you're the one really letting him "win" by setting the terms of the game in the first place?

I say having the sense and responsibility to remove yourself from something toxic is a win, and who cares if some pathetic fool does a little victory dance about it.

[_Dr. Shades]

For God's sake, shades, it's just a message board.

It's ironic that you'd say that, since I had originally been thinking of saying the same thing to runtu vis-a-vis letting Wheat get to him.

But in any event, yes, at the end of the day, your statement is correct.

If someone thinks they "win" something by bullying someone away from a freakin' message board, that person is utterly pathetic.

Well? Wheat does come across as a tad pathetic, does he not?

People always have the responsibility to decide if any given activity is productive, healthy, and useful in their life. Who cares if someone at pathetic as wheat thinks he "wins"? Runtu has to take care of himself.

Yeah, that's true too. I guess I was a bit too focused on the principle of allowing a person like Wheat to set the terms of engagement.

Shades, did it ever occur to you that maybe you're the one really letting him "win" by setting the terms of the game in the first place?

No, it didn't. . . although I must admit I don't quite know what you mean, since I thought I was advocating participating on message boards according to one's own terms.

I say having the sense and responsibility to remove yourself from something toxic is a win, and who cares if some pathetic fool does a little victory dance about it.

I can see your point. It's a valid one. Maybe I got carried away in my bull-headedness.

[_Some Schmo]

You realize that Wheat is purposefully trying to push your buttons, right? If you leave, then you're giving him exactly what he wants. You're essentially handing him the trophy and telling him that he did indeed best you.

My personal philosophy is that it'll be a cold day in Hell before any Mormon on Earth, Heaven, or Hell can intimidate me off a message board. They day I allow a Mormon to intimidate me off a message board is the day I put a bullet into my own brain.

For God's sake, shades, it's just a message board. If someone thinks they "win" something by bullying someone away from a freakin' message board, that person is utterly pathetic.

People always have the responsibility to decide if any given activity is productive, healthy, and useful in their life. Who cares if someone at pathetic as wheat thinks he "wins"? Runtu has to take care of himself. Shades, did it ever occur to you that maybe you're the one really letting him "win" by setting the terms of the game in the first place?

I say having the sense and responsibility to remove yourself from something toxic is a win, and who cares if some pathetic fool does a little victory dance about it.

And actually, who's to say that's really wheat's intent? Maybe he wants to keep Runtu coming back to defend himself so he can continue to torment him.

"Winning" against a poster boils generally down to indifference, not coming, going, or in any way being influenced by that poster. You can't fault Runtu for wanting to get away from a situation with which he's not comfortable. Some people fight, some people flight, and some people do whatever makes them most comfortable (fight or flight) given the situation at hand. It's just how different people deal.

[_Bond...James Bond]

I thought this guy was one of the more reasonable voices of "Reason", little I knew he was a "Pussy" (don't mean female epiteth), look what he says:

At least he's coherent. You're not.

[_Hally McIlrath]

little I knew he was a "Pussy" (don't mean female epiteth)

Then just what precisely do you mean? Please be specific and detailed in your answer.

And...do you eat Sacrament with that mouth...?

[_beastie]

I can see your point. It's a valid one. Maybe I got carried away in my bull-headedness.

Yeah, it was the bullet-in-the-brain line that gave it away. ;)

[_Blixa]

Hi everybody! Sorry I haven't been back over to respond to the thread on Blood Atonement For Homosexuals since I pretty much started the thing by bringing the original remark to the board's attention. I haven’t had the time to since I’ve been busy hanging out with gay people and endangering civilization. I’ve been going to museums, hanging out in galleries and eating an enormous amount of really good food. Last night we all went cruising. On a sail boat.

Earlier in one of the threads surrounding the “blood atonement for homosexuals” contrempts, Gaz wrote:

We need posters like Blixa here, and for be it from me to be the one who drives her off.

And since this thread has become a discussion of leaving, being driving off, “winning” and “losing,” I guess this is as good a place to post my response as any.

I have no idea why Gaz would make that remark about me. I teach Gay and Lesbian Literature courses, for God’s sake. I’ve been the faculty advisor of many gay and lesbian student organizations, most of my friends are gay men, I belong to many gay activist groups and support others, I’ve marched the marches, been gay bashed and spit on, I’m all about the gays. I basically grew up in Salt Lake gay bars. I learned the most important lessons about gender from the example of Candy Darling and other transsexuals (that its all just performance). I’m the kind of person he doesn’t want; he should just consider me a gay man and be done with it.

I wouldn’t say I’ve been “driven off,” but I am posting here considerably a lot less lately. Some times I think I’ve more or less given up on Shades' board, but I don’t think I have entirely. I'll still scan it and maybe jump in, but with considerably less lengthy and thought-out posts than I was doing at one time. When I've been involved in serious discussions here---and there have been some very, very great threads and intellectual moments---I've put a lot of work into my posts, both thinking and writing and editing and spell checking like I would with any serious "minor" writing that I do (by "minor" I mean work like seminar and conference papers, essays, articles and the considerable amount of writing I do for the courses I teach: I write about the equivalent of an essay an week for the advanced literature course I teach every semester, as well as all manner of short "tutor" texts I produce for every class). I gave things this level of attention either out of the respect I had for the other posters in the thread, or the importance I accorded the topic.

But recently there has just been too much provocation and bullying by people who are obviously there for just that. As beastie has observed elsewhere:

I know, I know, we're supposed to be disciplined enough to simply not read their shyte, but that's hard to do when it suddenly pops up on a thread out of the blue...I think it's a good thing that Shade's board deliberately allows for all these voices, but there is a price to pay in "noise versus signal" ratio for that open exchange, and individuals may decide the price isn't worth it.

As beastie points out, the very format of this board (Shades's very admirable commitment to his principle of non-censorship and non-banning) both allows for and constricts, or at least shapes, discussion. I don't think the signal-to-noise ratio problem invalidates the kinds of discussion that can and do take place here. And I also appreciate the rationale for continued posting that beastie has articulated: doing it for the lurkers. It's true that that can be an important pedagogical strategy. I guess I've been more selfish: I have to get something out of it, something intellectual. This doesn't mean I'm immune to the emotional pleasures of such exchange: I've met people on this board and others who have become long term real life and online friends---significant, important relationships. But I don't need the emotional drain that for me at least is a by-product of the crappy behavior of a group of current posters. And its usually not the personal attacks that get to me, its the attack on friends of mine, both individual and collective---people who have in many ways saved my life.

But message boards go through different stages and maybe the tenor here will change again and new opportunities for discussion will emerge.

Others have also argued that “leaving” or letting others significantly impact how one responds amounts to “letting them win.”

I see that point, but I don't see it as them "winning" anything but instead losing it all: losing the opportunity for learning, losing the opportunity for communication, losing the opportunity for increased understanding, losing the opportunity for friendship, ultimately losing the opportunity for increasing the level of humanity in the world.

[_moksha]

Maybe it has changed, but some time ago I thought this was a more happening place than FLAK. They have some brilliant writers over there, but it must get old beating the same issues without input from Mormons.

If nothing else, I need a break. People like me with mental illness probably shouldn't be engaging in passionate debate about such personal issues.

Makes perfect sense. Sometimes we just need to replenish our resilience reserves.

[_beastie]

Wonderful post, blixa.

One of the inevitable costs of a low-moderated board is that you'll end up with a lot of noise, and posts from people who just wouldn't survive at more moderated boards with higher standards. If we all had your self discipline and would ignore people who really ought to be ignored, the board would be a better place. Sadly, I'm not one with that type of self control, apparently.