How about an Alaskan Cruise with Dr. Peterson?

[_Mister Scratch]

I have two comments.

1) I find DCP's Middle East comments to be extremely reasonable, insightful, and useful. I am grateful to him for providing all of us "hick" Americans with views into the way that Middle Easterners live their lives. His acquaintance with the way things operate is genuinely useful to all of us, I would think.

2) Who is paying for his many, rather exotic globe-trotting experiences? He has denied that FARMS kicks out beaucoup dollars for whatever it is that he does, so... Who pays for all these trips? I noticed in one of the threads (perhaps a different one) that he mentioned taking his kids to Paris, and St. Petersburg, and all manner of places. I'm sure that many of us would like to be so well traveled! Furthermore, we know that Sarah Palin has been sharply criticized for hauling her kids all over the place on the nickel and dime of the taxpayers. Well, had DCP been flying all across the globe on the nickel and dime of tithe-payers (or FARMS donors)?

I ask this because DCP's travels are utterly extraordinary. The extent of his travels is way, *WAY* atypical for academia, and it leads me to suspect that something "out of the ordinary" is going on.

[_Calculus Crusader]

I have two comments.

1) I find DCP's Middle East comments to be extremely reasonable, insightful, and useful. I am grateful to him for providing all of us "hick" Americans with views into the way that Middle Easterners live their lives. His acquaintance with the way things operate is genuinely useful to all of us, I would think.

2) Who is paying for his many, rather exotic globe-trotting experiences? He has denied that FARMS kicks out beaucoup dollars for whatever it is that he does, so... Who pays for all these trips? I noticed in one of the threads (perhaps a different one) that he mentioned taking his kids to Paris, and St. Petersburg, and all manner of places. I'm sure that many of us would like to be so well traveled! Furthermore, we know that Sarah Palin has been sharply criticized for hauling her kids all over the place on the nickel and dime of the taxpayers. Well, had DCP been flying all across the globe on the nickel and dime of tithe-payers (or FARMS donors)?

I ask this because DCP's travels are utterly extraordinary. The extent of his travels is way, *WAY* atypical for academia, and it leads me to suspect that something "out of the ordinary" is going on.

I don't think his travels are necessarily atypical for an academician.

[_Mister Scratch]

I have two comments.

1) I find DCP's Middle East comments to be extremely reasonable, insightful, and useful. I am grateful to him for providing all of us "hick" Americans with views into the way that Middle Easterners live their lives. His acquaintance with the way things operate is genuinely useful to all of us, I would think.

2) Who is paying for his many, rather exotic globe-trotting experiences? He has denied that FARMS kicks out beaucoup dollars for whatever it is that he does, so... Who pays for all these trips? I noticed in one of the threads (perhaps a different one) that he mentioned taking his kids to Paris, and St. Petersburg, and all manner of places. I'm sure that many of us would like to be so well traveled! Furthermore, we know that Sarah Palin has been sharply criticized for hauling her kids all over the place on the nickel and dime of the taxpayers. Well, had DCP been flying all across the globe on the nickel and dime of tithe-payers (or FARMS donors)?

I ask this because DCP's travels are utterly extraordinary. The extent of his travels is way, *WAY* atypical for academia, and it leads me to suspect that something "out of the ordinary" is going on.

I don't think his travels are necessarily atypical for an academician.

Can you cite a comparable "academician" who has traveled as extensively as DCP? And furthermore, how much does this cost? Obviously, this is costing the Church a ton of money.

[_Ray A]

2) Who is paying for his many, rather exotic globe-trotting experiences? He has denied that FARMS kicks out beaucoup dollars for whatever it is that he does, so... Who pays for all these trips? I noticed in one of the threads (perhaps a different one) that he mentioned taking his kids to Paris, and St. Petersburg, and all manner of places. I'm sure that many of us would like to be so well traveled! Furthermore, we know that Sarah Palin has been sharply criticized for hauling her kids all over the place on the nickel and dime of the taxpayers. Well, had DCP been flying all across the globe on the nickel and dime of tithe-payers (or FARMS donors)?

I ask this because DCP's travels are utterly extraordinary. The extent of his travels is way, *WAY* atypical for academia, and it leads me to suspect that something "out of the ordinary" is going on.

I have the loathesome obligation to actually ask the same question.

A weekend in Vienna? Rubbing shoulders with the "rich and famous"? So to speak.

A full time, or part-time "job", in Apologetics? The "leisure" to spend almost 24/7 on an anti-Mormon board?

I dunno, I might be "speaking out of turn", but I'd like Dan to justify all this. Isn't it a sort of "paid ministry"?

Over to you, Dan.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I have two comments.

1) I find DCP's Middle East comments to be extremely reasonable, insightful, and useful. I am grateful to him for providing all of us "hick" Americans with views into the way that Middle Easterners live their lives. His acquaintance with the way things operate is genuinely useful to all of us, I would think.

2) Who is paying for his many, rather exotic globe-trotting experiences? He has denied that FARMS kicks out beaucoup dollars for whatever it is that he does, so... Who pays for all these trips? I noticed in one of the threads (perhaps a different one) that he mentioned taking his kids to Paris, and St. Petersburg, and all manner of places. I'm sure that many of us would like to be so well traveled! Furthermore, we know that Sarah Palin has been sharply criticized for hauling her kids all over the place on the nickel and dime of the taxpayers. Well, had DCP been flying all across the globe on the nickel and dime of tithe-payers (or FARMS donors)?

I ask this because DCP's travels are utterly extraordinary. The extent of his travels is way, *WAY* atypical for academia, and it leads me to suspect that something "out of the ordinary" is going on.

Good grief, Scartch.

I mean, really. Does it never sleep? This is really, really weird. Does your seemingly endless fascination with my personal finances never flag?

You have absolutely no business trying to pry into my life this way. None.

But I have nothing to hide:

The trips have been paid for in many ways.

I took my kids to Paris while returning from six months teaching at the BYU Jerusalem Center. While our travel expenses to and from the Center were part of my compensation for teaching there, our travels within Europe were on my nickel. Would you like precise figures? Receipts? An itinerary?

I've never taken any of my kids to St. Petersburg.

I've been to that city twice. Once, from Egypt, at my own expense. The most recent time as part of a Baltic Cruise on which I was a speaker. As compensation for my services on that particular trip, my expenses and those of my wife, including land tours, were covered. I would imagine that, if you subpoena the records from the travel company, they'll still have them. They're a private business.

Some of my trips have been on University errands. When my wife has accompanied me on such trips, she has generally paid her own way. (There have been a few exceptions, where she was participating with me in helping to host some international University-related event, or something of that sort.) I've spoken at academic conferences throughout North America, in Europe, in Asia, etc.

Some of my trips have been at the behest of the Church. In those cases, some area or agency of the Church has picked up the tab.

Some of my trips have been paid for by other academic institutions of various types.

Many of my trips have been at my own expense. My wife and I like to travel.

That is more than you have any right to know, but I'm sure it won't be enough and I'm quite confident that it will be suggested that I'm being less than forthright, etc.

[_Mister Scratch]

2) Who is paying for his many, rather exotic globe-trotting experiences? He has denied that FARMS kicks out beaucoup dollars for whatever it is that he does, so... Who pays for all these trips? I noticed in one of the threads (perhaps a different one) that he mentioned taking his kids to Paris, and St. Petersburg, and all manner of places. I'm sure that many of us would like to be so well traveled! Furthermore, we know that Sarah Palin has been sharply criticized for hauling her kids all over the place on the nickel and dime of the taxpayers. Well, had DCP been flying all across the globe on the nickel and dime of tithe-payers (or FARMS donors)?

I ask this because DCP's travels are utterly extraordinary. The extent of his travels is way, *WAY* atypical for academia, and it leads me to suspect that something "out of the ordinary" is going on.

I have the loathesome obligation to actually ask the same question.

A weekend in Vienna? Rubbing shoulders with the "rich and famous"? So to speak.

A full time, or part-time "job", in Apologetics? The "leisure" to spend almost 24/7 on an anti-Mormon board?

I dunno, I might be "speaking out of turn", but I'd like Dan to justify all this. Isn't it a sort of "paid ministry"?

Over to you, Dan.

I don't know that the "obligation" is necessarily "loathsome," Ray. With all due respect, I think you are exaggerating a wee bit, but I do most certainly think that you have got a very good point here. DCP's travels seem too extend well, *WELL* beyond what is typical of the American academic. (Perhaps Blixa can weigh in here.) Usually, academic departments have limited funds which are available for professors to deliver papers at academic conferences, or do research at remote locations. But, DCP is practically the Indiana Jones of Mormon Apologetics. His travel budget, annually, must run into the tens of thousands of dollars.... And who is paying for this? He joked, in a recent Kerry Shirts video, about his "night-time Ferrari" and his "platinum" bathroom fixtures. Perhaps instead his should joke should have been about his multiple trips to Paris, or his excursion to St. Petersburg?

[_Calculus Crusader]

Can you cite a comparable "academician" who has traveled as extensively as DCP? And furthermore, how much does this cost? Obviously, this is costing the Church a ton of money.

My comment was based on what I have encountered during my time in academia. Some professors travel quite extensively. I've not logged their travels because I do not care (except for any interesting stories they have to share.)

[_Daniel Peterson]

I have the loathesome obligation to actually ask the same question.

A weekend in Vienna? Rubbing shoulders with the "rich and famous"? So to speak.

A full time, or part-time "job", in Apologetics? The "leisure" to spend almost 24/7 on an anti-Mormon board?

I dunno, I might be "speaking out of turn", but I'd like Dan to justify all this. Isn't it a sort of "paid ministry"?

Over to you, Dan.

What does lecturing on a Baltic cruise have to do with apologetics? How is taking my children to Paris at my own expense (and to my old mission areas in the Swiss Alps, and to the concentration camp in Austria that my father helped to liberate at the end of the Second World War) a venture in "paid ministry"? How is leading a tour of Israel and Jordan for a commercial travel company "apologetics"? How is directing an intensive Arabic language program in Jerusalem a "paid ministry"? How is it apologetics to participate in dialogues between western and Arab intellectuals in Spain and in Malta at the invitation and expense of a New York City foundation? How is lecturing at the Institut du Monde Arabe in Paris, on their dime, anything remotely approaching a "paid ministry"?

And why, Ray, do I have to justify my life to you or to Scartch?

Really. I think I've had it with this place.

This is simply ridiculous.

If you really want to see my tax returns and my personal financial documents for the past ten or twenty years, sue me.

I've had enough, and more than enough, of this endless, absurd, intrusive, invasive Scartchoscopy. Seeing you join in it, Ray, is the last straw.

[_Calculus Crusader]

But, DCP is practically the Indiana Jones of Mormon Apologetics...

Well, I don't know about that, but I did hear that Hamblin once lowered him down the shaft of an ancient guarderobe (which may or may not have contained snakes) in search of a possible Book of Mormon name etched therein.

[_Mister Scratch]

Good grief, Scartch.

Oh? I thought you were busy/traveling. I guess not!

I mean, really. Does it never sleep? This is really, really weird. Does your seemingly endless fascination with my personal finances never flag?

Does your seemingly incessant obsession with Mopologetic critics never flag?

You have absolutely no business trying to pry into my life this way. None.

Nor do you have any requirement to reply. And yet you do!

But I have nothing to hide:

The trips have been paid for in many ways.

I bet they have!

I took my kids to Paris while returning from six months teaching at the BYU Jerusalem Center. While our travel expenses to and from the Center were part of my compensation for teaching there, our travels within Europe were on my nickel. Would you like precise figures? Receipts? An itinerary?

I find this stunning. How many other universities are you aware of that would fly around some random professor's kids on the nickel and dime of the trustees / donors / tithe payers? I am truly blown away by this. Honestly, what should people think? If I were in your shoes, I would feel disgusted to know that I was leeching money away from honest people in order to give my children some extravagant vacation.

I've never taken any of my kids to St. Petersburg.

But someone has apparently paid for you to go there and have a gay ol' time.

I've been to that city twice. Once, from Egypt, at my own expense. The most recent time as part of a Baltic Cruise on which I was a speaker. As compensation for my services on that particular trip, my expenses and those of my wife, including land tours, were covered. I would imagine that, if you subpoena the records from the travel company, they'll still have them. They're a private business.

How/why did this ever happen in the first place? It seems awfully opportunistic, if you don't mind my saying so. The best piece of writing ever done on cruises (imho) is David Foster Wallace's, "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again." Have you read that, Prof. P.? He is quite frank and honest about his motives in that piece.

Some of my trips have been on University errands. When my wife has accompanied me on such trips, she has generally paid her own way. (There have been a few exceptions, where she was participating with me in helping to host some international University-related event, or something of that sort.) I've spoken at academic conferences throughout North America, in Europe, in Asia, etc.

Yup. It seems clear that BYU has paid for your family to have a "gay ol' time" on the nickel and dime of LDS tithe payers.

[qoute]Some of my trips have been at the behest of the Church. In those cases, some area or agency of the Church has picked up the tab.

Some of my trips have been paid for by other academic institutions of various types.

Many of my trips have been at my own expense. My wife and I like to travel.

That is more than you have any right to know, but I'm sure it won't be enough and I'm quite confident that it will be suggested that I'm being less than forthright, etc.[/quote]

I appreciate your candor, Prof. P.