The Sons of Helaman - is this a sick joke?

[_Jason Bourne]

It still requires confession and it can delay young men from going on missions and going to the temple until it is overcome.

Uhhhh.....no, no, and no.

Nehor

You are simply wrong here. Youth are told sexual sins, including repeated problems with masturbation. requires confession to the bishop. It also can delay a mission and temple attendance. I will note that delays for missions and temple really depend how hard nose the bishop or SP making the decision are about masturbation.

[_Yoda]

(Moderator Note) I moved Merc and Nehor's little back and forth session of personal attacks to this thread if anyone is interested:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8510

[_silentkid]

Nehor

You are simply wrong here. Youth are told sexual sins, including repeated problems with masturbation. requires confession to the bishop. It also can delay a mission and temple attendance. I will note that delays for missions and temple really depend how hard nose the bishop or SP making the decision are about masturbation.

Thanks, Jason, for being the voice of reason. From what I learned in my years as a Mormon, The Law of Chastity governs sexual sins. I would like Nehor to explain how a sexual sin like masturbation doesn't fall under the Law of Chastity. Maybe I'm wrong and it falls under the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Consecration or something. If I am wrong, I'll admit it. Nehor, on the other hand (hahahaha) chooses to make things up as he goes. He defines doctrine and practice for the church. He never supports his assertions with anything other than his claims to have talked to some some sort of supernatural being (be it god, Jesus, joseph, or his dead ancestors) and received some sort of divine guidance from it. This is truly a step toward apostasy.


***************************

[_silentkid]

I'm on the Internet and I have to have a point to vomit anything that comes to my mind onto a public message board? Quit trying to rewrite the rules here.

I'm not trying to re-write any rules here. I was just asking why you enjoy vomiting 6500+ posts of inane BS on this messageboard.

I did once a long time ago contribute useful things on this board.

CFR

I learned that in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is considered a loon.

Pride cometh before the fall.

So I put on clown shoes and a red nose to fit the part. As to not being funny, I have multiple PM's that disagree. No accounting for your taste I guess.

Great. Droopy finds you funny. Congratulations.

[_Jason Bourne]

Thanks, Jason, for being the voice of reason. From what I learned in my years as a Mormon, The Law of Chastity governs sexual sins. I would like Nehor to explain how a sexual sin like masturbation doesn't fall under the Law of Chastity. Maybe I'm wrong and it falls under the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Consecration or something. If I am wrong, I'll admit it. Nehor, on the other hand (hahahaha) chooses to make things up as he goes. He defines doctrine and practice for the church. He never supports his assertions with anything other than his claims to have talked to some some sort of supernatural being (be it god, Jesus, joseph, or his dead ancestors) and received some sort of divine guidance from it. This is truly a step toward apostasy.

You are not wrong. Masturbation certainly is part of the Law of Chastity. As most know here there was a talk in the 70s by Elder Packer in a priesthood session of general conference called For Young Men Only. It was published in a booklet. It is still in use today. President Kimball discussed it in Miracle of Forgiveness and ranks it lower on the sex sin list but does state it can delay a mission.

There is really little guidance for leaders on this and usually bishops are left to themselves on how severely or lax to be with "offenders" that confess it.

[_The Dude]

Towards the end of my mission, when I was a zone leader and I met with investigators for baptismal interviews, I stopped asking them if they understood that masturbation was against the law of chastity. We had been instructed not to pry into anything sexual with people who were married, and I thought that if I didn't have to ask married men about masturbation, I wasn't going to ask anybody about it. I hated asking and I thought it was stupid, so I quit asking altogether.

You have the legalistic bullcrap that may or may not be enforced by your bishop, and then you have what God really thinks and that's just between you and God. So if Nehor really thinks masturbation is not against the Law of Chastity (as opposed to the law of the church), I can see how someone might think that. But I think that person is in danger of questioning too much about the church, and will eventually apostatize in his heart, or go all the way like me.

[_asbestosman]

As to not being funny, I have multiple PM's that disagree.

No fair. Where are my PM's saying that I'm funny?

No accounting for your taste I guess.

Or mine. I mean, I often think you're funny too.


Now for some silentkid approved humor (I hope). I would think that this SoH program is hands down--I mean hands up--the best shot people have at overcoming masturbation outside of tying their hands to the bedpost.

There, how'd I do silentkid?

[_Dr. Shades]

Hey silentkid, what did you think of this post? Does it get the silentkid seal of approval? Be honest.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor

You are simply wrong here. Youth are told sexual sins, including repeated problems with masturbation. requires confession to the bishop. It also can delay a mission and temple attendance. I will note that delays for missions and temple really depend how hard nose the bishop or SP making the decision are about masturbation.

Thanks, Jason, for being the voice of reason. From what I learned in my years as a Mormon, The Law of Chastity governs sexual sins. I would like Nehor to explain how a sexual sin like masturbation doesn't fall under the Law of Chastity. Maybe I'm wrong and it falls under the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Consecration or something. If I am wrong, I'll admit it. Nehor, on the other hand (hahahaha) chooses to make things up as he goes. He defines doctrine and practice for the church. He never supports his assertions with anything other than his claims to have talked to some some sort of supernatural being (be it god, Jesus, joseph, or his dead ancestors) and received some sort of divine guidance from it. This is truly a step toward apostasy.


***************************

It falls under a different list of sins, most of them rather petty sins. I put masturbation in the same pile with not attending a fireside.

I don't make it up as I go. The voices tell me I'm not.

If I'm on the road to apostasy I intend to make sure it's a memorable ride. I don't think I am though. Whether I class masturbation as a sexual sin does not strike me as the beginning of the end of my membership. I class masturbation in a different category. I put it in line with being unkind, skipping firesides, and sleeping through General Conference. If it's an addiction (i.e. can't live without it) I'd up the seriousness a bit.

[_Inconceivable]

How does a Mormon young adult transition in his (or her) mind from total abstinence to a healthy sexual relationship the night following their marriage?

What is a clean sexual thought before marriage? Are there any?

Then, what is a clean sexual thought after marriage?

For young men that have overcome (knock it off with the puns) this behavior prior to mission/marriage, how does their perspective of sex effect their mindset and behavior after marriage?

What is the message that this Sons of Helaman group is really conveying to these poor kids when, in reality, the "problem" can pretty much take care of itself after marriage?

Shouldn't they be teaching more about understanding healthy relationships instead of defining masterbation as sexual deviancy?

I had a mission companion that confessed to me that he put his little factory into full production on a fairly regular basis. He thought he would be damned because it figured into the reason we weren't baptising. The MP told him that he needed to get married as soon as he could following the mission so he would not commit a more heinous sin in the interim . He looked forward to getting home for that reason. Besides, Southwest Kimball said that you might become a homo if you couldn't master, well, yourself.

No wonder some RM's have such a scewed perception of marriage. Where does a loving, respectable and healthy relationship fit into this paradign?

Honestly, I can understand and agree with why we ought to encourage our young adults (and ourselves) to avoid particularly hardcore porn and even sexual relations before marriage (and monogomous relationships thereafter - I'm talking to you, Joseph Smith).

However, so long as masterbation does not become an obsessive compulsion or addiction it shouldn't be an issue of worthiness within any religeon. If a person believes in a God, perhaps this is an issue they might take up with Him (or Her).

Nehor,

In Mormonism, your little factory doors are to remain shut until your partnership in marriage. There are no silent partners.

In Mormonism, masterbation is a sin that must be confessed to the bishop - always. You cannot receive a valid temple recommend or qualify for a mission if your factory is open for business (as a single Mormon). Silent partners after marriage are forbidden and require confession to the bishop as well.

You might ask your bishop to confirm the doctrine if you're not too concerned about being honest with his predictable followup questions.