Watered Down Mormonism?

[Guest]

How about this:

Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?

Latter-day Saints believe that God wants us to become like Him. But this teaching is often misrepresented by those who caricature the faith. The Latter-day Saint belief is no different than the biblical teaching, which states, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Romans 8:16-17). Through following Christ's teachings, Latter-day Saints believe all people can become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4).

Nothing to see here. Just milk, not meat (the newsroom stuff is rudimentary LDS teaching, and meant primarily for the general non-member public). This answer, while not being specific, does suggest that one "connect the dots," so to speak. As one grows intellectually and spiritually in the Church, and learns deeper doctrine, it becomes quite clear that we are to become gods in every sense in which of Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are gods.

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

Notice again that this answer is just retaining the pearls. It doesn't really answer the question at all, but restates the fundamental ideas of becoming like our Heavenly Father and then adds that we do not understand all the specifics - which leaves open the possibility of the truth of the very aspect of godhood the question asks about.
Of course, LDS doctrine doesn't say that we will "get our own planet," but that, being like our Heavenly Father, we will be creators of those worlds - creators out of the materials of chaos - under the direction and priesthood authority of Jesus Christ.

And this:

Do Mormon women lead in the Church?

Yes. All women are daughters of a loving Heavenly Father. Women and men are equal in the sight of God. The Bible says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). In the family, a wife and a husband form an equal partnership in leading and raising a family.

From the beginning of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints women have played an integral role in the work of the Church. While worthy men hold the priesthood, worthy women serve as leaders, counselors, missionaries, teachers, and in many other responsibilities— they routinely preach from the pulpit and lead congregational prayers in worship services. They serve both in the Church and in their local communities and contribute to the world as leaders in a variety of professions. Their vital and unique contribution to raising children is considered an important responsibility and a special privilege of equal importance to priesthood responsibilities.

I will let the women here opine on this.

And what would they know about it?

Do Mormons believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?

We do not know exactly where the original site of the Garden of Eden is. While not an important or foundational doctrine, Joseph Smith established a settlement in Daviess County, Missouri, and taught that the Garden of Eden was somewhere in that area. Like knowing the precise number of animals on Noah’s ark, knowing the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important to one’s salvation than believing in the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Adam-ondi-Ahman is not in the Garden of Eden, but was a place Adam removed to after being expelled from the Garden. Notice, Jason, that this example especially does not make any case for you. There is no "backpedaling" here at all, but only an admission that the exact site of the Garden is not known (while not backpedaling from Joseph's claim that it was somewhere in Jackson County, Missouri) and that this kind of knowledge is not in any direct way relevant to our salvation and exaltation.

Pull the lever on the anti-Mormon slot machine in your mind again, and see what comes up.

[_Willy Law]

The doctrine places the Garden in a county If I recall correctly. No word on the extent. It is also true that such knowledge is not necessary to salvation. Again, no conflict.

See my quote from Wilford Woodruff's journal. The question posed by President Newsroom was "Do Mormons believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?" The honest answer is a simple "yes." The answer they gave, by the church's own definition is a lie.

[_Willy Law]

Adam-ondi-Ahman is not in the Garden of Eden, but was a place Adam removed to after being expelled from the Garden. Notice, Jason, that this example especially does not make any case for you. There is no "backpedaling" here at all, but only an admission that the exact site of the Garden is not known (while not backpedaling from Joseph's claim that it was somewhere in Jackson County, Missouri) and that this kind of knowledge is not in any direct way relevant to our salvation and exaltation.

Pull the lever on the anti-Mormon slot machine in your mind again, and see what comes up.

I will quote again just for you Droopy.
Here we have three prophet's of God referenced in a statement placing the garden of eden in Missouri. I guess that doesn't count for much these days with the newsroom running the church.

March 30, 1873: At evening prayer circle: President Young said Joseph the
Prophet told me that the Garden [172] of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri,
and when Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden, he went about 40 miles to
the place which he named Adam ondi Ahman, and there built an alter of stone
and offered sacrifice. That altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left
it, as did many others, and through all the revolutions of the world, that
alter had not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch
fled and was translated, it was where the gulf of Mexico now is; it left that
gulf a body of water.
Wilford Wodruff's Journal

Edited to add: If you, and the newsroom, are now going to try and claim that we do not know if the garden of eden was in Missouri then either Joseph Smith, Brigham Young or Wilford Woodruff (or all three) are wrong.

[_Droopy]

See my quote from Wilford Woodruff's journal. The question posed by President Newsroom was "Do Mormons believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?" The honest answer is a simple "yes." The answer they gave, by the church's own definition is a lie.

Where's the lie? The Newsroom simply says that the exact location is not known, while admitting to Joseph's original teaching. That's really very, very clear in the Newsroom answer.

Too clear, in fact to have been misinterpreted. Willful misrepresentation of clear statements seems all the rage, these days, both here and a the MDD.

Its become exceptionally wearying, to say the least.

[_Droopy]

Here we have three prophet's of God referenced in a statement placing the garden of eden in Missouri. I guess that doesn't count for much these days with the newsroom running the church.

Read the Newsroom answer again. There is no denial of Joseph's teaching that the Garden was in Missouri. The only addition here is that the exact location is not known, and that this knowledge has, in and of itself, no direct relevant to our salvation and exaltation. Adam-ondi-Ahman was not in the Garden.

Just keep going with this until you turn blue (or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first).

[_Willy Law]

Hey Droopy, do you honestly believe that, with this question and answer, the church measures up to it's own definition of being honest?

There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth

Gospel Principles Manual Ch 31

[_Darth J]

Do Mormon women lead in the Church?

Yes. All women are daughters of a loving Heavenly Father. Women and men are equal in the sight of God. The Bible says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). In the family, a wife and a husband form an equal partnership in leading and raising a family.

From the beginning of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints women have played an integral role in the work of the Church. While worthy men hold the priesthood, worthy women serve as leaders, counselors, missionaries, teachers, and in many other responsibilities— they routinely preach from the pulpit and lead congregational prayers in worship services. They serve both in the Church and in their local communities and contribute to the world as leaders in a variety of professions. Their vital and unique contribution to raising children is considered an important responsibility and a special privilege of equal importance to priesthood responsibilities.

I will let the women here opine on this.

And what would they know about it?

dramatic irony: irony that is inherent in speeches or a situation of a drama and is understood by the audience but not grasped by the characters in the play.

[Guest]

The official Church position gets many things wrong; blacks and the priesthood; polygamy; women and the priesthood; and so on. They are mistaken on this as well and will eventually come around and recognize that man is not God; nor can we ever be God. Mormons should dispose of such ridiculous notions and learn to rely on God instead of trying to be God. I think they'd have less stress, be a little kinder and understanding of others, and they might find people are not so resistant to their beliefs.

If the official position is so wrong then what good are prophets? And why should anyone trust that you have it right? And if the Church teaches it incorrectly and members believe it what happens to the members? Sort of like BY getting so much wrong-Adam is God, Blood Atonement, infinite regression of gods, polygamy required to be exalted, this planet created from other ones, Go still gaining knowledge, we getting our own planet... but this 19th century Mormon sure believed all this.

I view the Church as primarily an association of members. In that association, a number of things are taught in which some of them are correct and some of them are incorrect. The point of Mormonism is to speak with God and through that relationship you can filter out good and bad principles. It is foolish to rely on men to do this for you since they often get things very wrong (as well as do rather silly things). The Mormon Church is lead by men and it is susceptible as any organization to this problem. And I know that many Mormons believe that the leaders (men) of the Church are incapable of being wrong. Those members that believe that are mistaken about that as well.

[_Tobin]

So what you're saying is that you can't discuss Mormonism with DarthJ because he is unaware of basics like, Polygamy was a mistake and women are entitled to the priesthood, matters typical Mormons you meet at church, the initiated, are fully conversant with?

No, I was saying it was Friday night and I'd had a long week and didn't feel like it.

[_Jason Bourne]

How about this:

Do Latter-day Saints believe they can become “gods”?

Latter-day Saints believe that God wants us to become like Him. But this teaching is often misrepresented by those who caricature the faith. The Latter-day Saint belief is no different than the biblical teaching, which states, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together” (Romans 8:16-17). Through following Christ's teachings, Latter-day Saints believe all people can become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4).

Nothing to see here. Just milk, not meat (the newsroom stuff is rudimentary LDS teaching, and meant primarily for the general non-member public). This answer, while not being specific, does suggest that one "connect the dots," so to speak. As one grows intellectually and spiritually in the Church, and learns deeper doctrine, it becomes quite clear that we are to become gods in every sense in which of Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are gods.

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

Notice again that this answer is just retaining the pearls. It doesn't really answer the question at all, but restates the fundamental ideas of becoming like our Heavenly Father and then adds that we do not understand all the specifics - which leaves open the possibility of the truth of the very aspect of godhood the question asks about.
Of course, LDS doctrine doesn't say that we will "get our own planet," but that, being like our Heavenly Father, we will be creators of those worlds - creators out of the materials of chaos - under the direction and priesthood authority of Jesus Christ.

And this:

Do Mormon women lead in the Church?

Yes. All women are daughters of a loving Heavenly Father. Women and men are equal in the sight of God. The Bible says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). In the family, a wife and a husband form an equal partnership in leading and raising a family.

From the beginning of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints women have played an integral role in the work of the Church. While worthy men hold the priesthood, worthy women serve as leaders, counselors, missionaries, teachers, and in many other responsibilities— they routinely preach from the pulpit and lead congregational prayers in worship services. They serve both in the Church and in their local communities and contribute to the world as leaders in a variety of professions. Their vital and unique contribution to raising children is considered an important responsibility and a special privilege of equal importance to priesthood responsibilities.

I will let the women here opine on this.

And what would they know about it?

Do Mormons believe that the Garden of Eden is in Missouri?

We do not know exactly where the original site of the Garden of Eden is. While not an important or foundational doctrine, Joseph Smith established a settlement in Daviess County, Missouri, and taught that the Garden of Eden was somewhere in that area. Like knowing the precise number of animals on Noah’s ark, knowing the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important to one’s salvation than believing in the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Adam-ondi-Ahman is not in the Garden of Eden, but was a place Adam removed to after being expelled from the Garden. Notice, Jason, that this example especially does not make any case for you. There is no "backpedaling" here at all, but only an admission that the exact site of the Garden is not known (while not backpedaling from Joseph's claim that it was somewhere in Jackson County, Missouri) and that this kind of knowledge is not in any direct way relevant to our salvation and exaltation.

Pull the lever on the anti-Mormon slot machine in your mind again, and see what comes up.

And Droopy's response drives home my point about how horribly the defenders of the Church do and why it turns me right off. More later.