"I know the Church is twoo"

[_Analytics]

But isn't that just a more subtle brainwashing exercise?

You may be right about this, but I think it only fair within the context of a particular faith tradition for parents to do something to inculcate in their kids a degree of religious education and training.

Fair enough, but if learning to embrace your inherited a faith tradition entails indoctrination more than exploration, that gives a clue about the strength and ultimate validity of the faith tradition in question.

I just think having their wee bairns repeat like robots in front of the congregation that they know the church is twoo to be a bit much.

The best example I ever heard of was a mother who took her pre-verbal baby up to the stand and held the baby up like a puppet in front of the microphone with the mother squatting out of sight and saying in a high-pitched, baby voice, "I know the church is true. I love my mommy and daddy."

Now, that was something.

Oh my!

[_Kevin Graham]

I haven't seen young children do this in a long time. However, some kids wish to copy their parents and go up to the podium to say their testimony. When this happens, what should a parent do? Parents are constantly socializing their children into a belief pattern. It comes with being a parent: to put various values that the parent wishes the child to have.

Are you really this stupid? You're really going to sit there and blame the children for wanting to mimic their parents?

[_zeezrom]

I felt this issue is worse for teenagers than it is for children.

I was often prodded to give a speech on my personal beliefs during youth outings, camping trips, and other activities with other teenagers and the adult leaders. One time while trekking out in the Wyoming plains, I was sitting at the campfire listening to kids stand up to share their testimonies. The stake pres kept eyeballing me and I kept feeling more and more pressure. Finally, I walked out into the woods to avoid his dreadful gaze and avoid the speech. I felt horribly guilty about it.

[_consiglieri]

Fair enough, but if learning to embrace your inherited a faith tradition entails indoctrination more than exploration, that gives a clue about the strength and ultimate validity of the faith tradition in question.

I agree. When I first joined the church back in the late 1970's, I remember being encouraged to study the faith traditions of others because, it was said, it would help me appreciate what I had found in Mormonism.

I do not recall hearing this in the last 25-years, though.

For whatever reason, I came to be under the impression that the LDS are open in investigating and exploring other religions, as well as being open about exploring the LDS tradition.

This struck me as a solid and secure position, and it made me feel good that the church I had joined took that view. Obviously, I thought, the LDS Church has nothing to hide and is not insecure about its members studying other religions.

Now that I have been a member for over three decades and have learned a tad more than I knew upon joining, I honestly have no idea where I came up with the idea that the LDS Church encouraged such exploration. But I seem to remember it clearly.

It may just be that circumstances were such that I got this message and attributed it to the church as a whole, or it may be that things really have changed that much in the last thirty years, and that Correlation may be largely responsible.

This is one of the reasons I have difficulty with current attempts by the Church to quash learning about other religions and especially about the LDS religion. In this regard, I think the Church History Gospel Doctrine manual gives a good example by restricting class study of D&C 132 to verse 19 and no further. And of course, we must use only the KJV in church (an example dripping with irony).

It is also why I found Elder Nelson's dismissive comment about the Big Bang Theory disconcerting.

We are starting to look more like JW's than Mormons.

(I hope that isn't offensive, but I studied with JW's when I was younger and my brother actually joined them. I used to contrast the LDS openness to new information favorably with the close-mindedness of the JW's. As the LDS church increasingly shuts off inquiry by its members, it increasingly resembles JW's to my mind. That is what I meant.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

I felt horribly guilty about it.

I think you were meant to, but now you can feel proud of yourself for not knuckling under to the peer pressure.

Three cheers for Zeezrom!

[_consiglieri]

And what should a parent do if their seven year old wants to give their testimony? Say no?

They could do what I do--tell the seven year old that I will walk up with them and support them but that I won't be feeding them what to say.

[_Tobin]

...

I think you'd be surprised. Many Mormons I know, including myself, love to study other world religions and philosophies. Right now, I'm studying Theravada Buddhism and the Pali Canon. I don't think Mormons can truly understand Mormonism without understanding these other points of view as well.

[_Shulem]

I am honestly unsure. My sense is that it is more likely that Joseph simply authored the Book of Mormon through inspiration.

And what about the angel Moroni? How can you believe Joseph Smith to be true and honest in his inspiration of the Book of Mormon if he was lying about the angel Moroni and the golden plates? He's a damn liar all the way. Nothing inspiring at all.

Take the Bible too. It's another religious nutbook based on myth and mind control and stories that are a bunch of crap. Jesus was a real person and walked around having ideas. His followers after his death really came up with one hell of a new religion. It's for the birds. God doesn't need to have sacrifices to forgive sins. That is Dark Aged thinking and the Christian religion is doing nothing more than trying to one-up the old Hebrew religion based on animal sacrifice. The whole thing is sick. The idea of Jesus being a Savior of our sins through his blood and death is sick. Christianity is nothing more than a mind-sucking CULT!

You have the power to save yourself, Liz. You don't need Jesus or anyone else to bring your love to God and be loved back.

Paul O

[_moksha]

Big time indoctrination for the young would seem to be a barrier for that "born again" experience where one choose the precepts of Christianity as the basis for their own genuine belief system.

The warranty period for a non-genuine belief system and its ultimate trade-in value is uncertain.

[_why me]

The only similarity between America the Beautiful and Follow the Prophet is they both have melodies. There are lots of wonderful hymns that are as emotionally moving and uplifting as America the Beautiful. Songs like Praise to the Man and Follow the Prophet are communist songs. The only thing that would complete the experience is if a giant poster of Joseph Smith was unveiled during the song while nuclear missiles are paraded down the street.

Americans have been indoctrinated into loving their country through slogans, songs and school. With the man who never told a lie hanging in every classroom, along with the flag. Land of the free, home of the brave hear it one million times and people believe it.