beastie wrote:Ya gotta admit, Pahoran, you set yourself up for that one. LOL
That's right. Because my occasional responses to your idol, the worthless Scratch, take up just as much Internet bandwidth, and represent a similar percentage of my posting activity, as the worthless Scratch's years-long, obsessive-compulsive defamation campaign against Dan, right?
Regards, Pahoran
I do hope Dr. Scratch will continue posting as much as he does, and I hope that Pahoran will keep on popping up on the board from time to time to contribute in his inimitable way.
A nice sprinkling of extra-hot Pahoran just makes a plateful of juicy Scratch posts all the more tasty and amusing. Please keep it up!
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Chap wrote:I do hope Dr. Scratch will continue posting as much as he does, and I hope that Pahoran will keep on popping up on the board from time to time to contribute in his inimitable way.
A nice sprinkling of extra-hot Pahoran just makes a plateful of juicy Scratch posts all the more tasty and amusing. Please keep it up!
Yes, we sometimes suffer from a shortage of irascibility.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
Doctor Scratch wrote:It's at this point that the essay takes an incredibly bizarre turn, as Prof. P. reminisces on yet another of the many injustices that have rained down upon his head:
Sometime in the Fall of 1974, I read an article in the Georgetown University newspaper about the open house for the newly built Washington D.C. Temple. I particularly remember its mockery of the temple’s new president, a retired Singer Corporation executive whose hand the author had shaken during a press reception. It was a hand, the article sneered, that had undoubtedly demonstrated and sold many sewing machines in its time.
I recall that Dr. Peterson highlighted the same article in an essay published in FARMS Review 12/2 (a revised version of a 1999 FAIR presentation posted here):
"[B]ack when the Washington D.C. Temple was dedicated, the student newspaper at nearby Georgetown University published a lengthy article in which some of its editors responded to their tour of the building during its open house. Their report was not favorable. At one point, they met the president of the new temple, a retired executive (as I recall) from the Singer Sewing Machine Company. Shaking his hand, the writer observed with unconcealed contempt, one could not overlook the fact that it was a hand that must have sold many sewing machines in its day."
The article I assume Dr. Peterson is referring to can be accessed here (pages 18-19 of the PDF). The writer notes that "the temple president describes the church's missionary program in terms of his experience as the manager of a business machine sales company: You don't criticize other religions, but sell your own product on its own merits....We are ushered into the temple offices, where the temple president greets us with a smile that must have sold thousands of business machines." The temple president had worked for Friden/Singer.
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beastie wrote:Ya gotta admit, Pahoran, you set yourself up for that one. LOL
That's right. Because my occasional responses to your idol, the worthless Scratch, take up just as much Internet bandwidth, and represent a similar percentage of my posting activity, as the worthless Scratch's years-long, obsessive-compulsive defamation campaign against Dan, right?
Regards, Pahoran
so you're saying you expended very little effort getting owned by Kish.
Tom wrote:I recall that Dr. Peterson highlighted the same article in an essay published in FARMS Review 12/2 (a revised version of a 1999 FAIR presentation posted here):
"[B]ack when the Washington D.C. Temple was dedicated, the student newspaper at nearby Georgetown University published a lengthy article in which some of its editors responded to their tour of the building during its open house. Their report was not favorable. At one point, they met the president of the new temple, a retired executive (as I recall) from the Singer Sewing Machine Company. Shaking his hand, the writer observed with unconcealed contempt, one could not overlook the fact that it was a hand that must have sold many sewing machines in its day."
The article I assume Dr. Peterson is referring to can be accessed here (pages 18-19 of the PDF). The writer notes that "the temple president describes the church's missionary program in terms of his experience as the manager of a business machine sales company: You don't criticize other religions, but sell your own product on its own merits....We are ushered into the temple offices, where the temple president greets us with a smile that must have sold thousands of business machines." The temple president had worked for Friden/Singer.
Wow Tom, thanks! I don't see any sneering or unconcealed (or maybe its TOO concealed) contempt there. Its almost as if DP is using hyperbole (making s#$% up) in order to make a point, feel like a martyr, justify wasting decades of his life defending the LDS church, etc....My guess is that he really is incapable of reading anything not written explicitly as pro-lds propaganda without assuming they are mocking the LDS church. Somehow, noting that the temple president had a very endearing and convincing smile equates to "unconcealed contempt" and "sneering"? What a sad, dysfunctional way to go through life...
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"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents "I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
Tom wrote:The article I assume Dr. Peterson is referring to can be accessed here (pages 18-19 of the PDF). The writer notes that "the temple president describes the church's missionary program in terms of his experience as the manager of a business machine sales company: You don't criticize other religions, but sell your own product on its own merits....We are ushered into the temple offices, where the temple president greets us with a smile that must have sold thousands of business machines." The temple president had worked for Friden/Singer.
nice catch, Tom.
so DCP has been nursing this supposed Georgetown sneer for decades, citing it on multiple occassions, and yet he mis-remembers the key passage.
but let's go further. is there anything even mildly offensive in a passage about the temple president having sold machines, either with his "smile" or with his "hand[s]"? the former styles the man as charming and successful, the latter makes him a hardworking regular guy. and that's assuming that the writer's turn of phrase was intended to convey anything at all. for all we know the writer was just trying to add a little color to a boring character in a boring fluff piece. what kind of person would see a calculated slight in this innocuous passage from a student newspaper, let alone continue to (incorrectly) recall the imagined slight for literally decades afterward? good lord.
while the headline is admittedly cheeky ("God's marble hotel-motel in suburban Maryland"), the contents of the piece are factual and balanced. the tone is light, but respectful -- about what you'd expect from an outsider being exposed to the oddities of the Mormon temple interior for the first time. while the article does direct at the LDS Church some mild editorial praise (wealthy, charitable) and criticism (corporate, commercial), for the most part it describes things in a matter-of-fact way and lets the church's literature and representatives speak for themselves.
here's one example of that (a quick transcription, so i apologize for any typos): The three officials show no defensiveness when questioned about the church's controversial exclusion of blacks from the priesthood. The policy is God's will, says Second Counselor Byron Dixon, "God is just and metes out no injustice," he explains with a friendly Idaho drawl. "Some come with more intelligence than others into this world. Some come more beautiful than others in this world." Dixon theorizes that the blacks may have committed some sin in their pre-existence before birth, "In the pre-existence, you may have gained an advantage or disadvantage in what you did. The advantages and disadvantages that come to us are chiefly due to our experience in the pre-existence. We say, 'It's not fair!' But we know not for we do not see beyond the pre-existence."
palerobber wrote:The three officials show no defensiveness when questioned about the church's controversial exclusion of blacks from the priesthood. The policy is God's will, says Second Counselor Byron Dixon, "God is just and metes out no injustice," he explains with a friendly Idaho drawl. "Some come with more intelligence than others into this world. Some come more beautiful than others in this world." Dixon theorizes that the blacks may have committed some sin in their pre-existence before birth, "In the pre-existence, you may have gained an advantage or disadvantage in what you did. The advantages and disadvantages that come to us are chiefly due to our experience in the pre-existence. We say, 'It's not fair!' But we know not for we do not see beyond the pre-existence."
Nowadays these kinds of comments would get you called in for a visit with your stake president a la Randy Bott.
"It doesn't seem fair, does it Norm--that I should have so much knowledge when there are people in the world that have to go to bed stupid every night." -- Clifford C. Clavin, USPS
"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado
palerobber wrote:The three officials show no defensiveness when questioned about the church's controversial exclusion of blacks from the priesthood. The policy is God's will, says Second Counselor Byron Dixon, "God is just and metes out no injustice," he explains with a friendly Idaho drawl. "Some come with more intelligence than others into this world. Some come more beautiful than others in this world." Dixon theorizes that the blacks may have committed some sin in their pre-existence before birth, "In the pre-existence, you may have gained an advantage or disadvantage in what you did. The advantages and disadvantages that come to us are chiefly due to our experience in the pre-existence. We say, 'It's not fair!' But we know not for we do not see beyond the pre-existence."
Nowadays these kinds of comments would get you called in for a visit with your stake president a la Randy Bott.
what i found really frustrating about LDS Newsroom's response to Bott was their failure to clarify whether the pre-1978 policy was "God's will" at that time, as Byron Dixon said there. i mean that's the real heart of the issue, isn't it?