Hierarchy - Is This at the Center of the Lib/Con Debate?

[_honorentheos]

It's the premise behind shock collars.

[_Chap]

If you had taken time to communicate when the situation took place or shortly after, this would have likely been resolved one way or another. Instead there are now 5 posts (I counted) saying how you're not interested, ceebs, when obviously you have unfinished business to address and you're right back at square one.

[/peanut gallery]

I do wish all this would stop. I don't really mind people yelling at one another, faux-profanity, deliberate distortion and caricaturing of opponents' views - that's all part of the game here, and does nothing to hurt me in real life, apart from sometimes making me ask why I let myself play here as often as I do instead of using my time to better effect.

But I don't like it when, as in Ceeboo's case, somebody appears to be suffering a sense of real personal hurt, even if I think that hurt is unreasonable.

Just take a bit of distance, Ceeboo. If you have managed to enrage someone you disagree with, chalk it up as a kind of success - at least he or she took notice! And then carry on regardless, smilies and all.

[_Some Schmo]

I'm a dick on this board quite often. But I'd like to think I also meet those who are civil with civility. Regardless, I try to make an honest attempt to understand someone's views rather than just assume I know what they think.

I seem to remember (at least) once getting a pretty decent smack-down from you. I wonder why I tend not to think you're a dick.

Maybe I just happen to value honesty over polite pretense.

[_honorentheos]

I vaguely recall getting into something with you but, yeah, my view of you as a poster is someone who speaks his mind with a bit of comedic wit. I do know I'm a dick, more often than I probably should be, so I can only assume that is part of my persona on the board. I guess some other things are more important to me on the board than not being perceived as a dick. And perhaps like you I find honestly far more appealing in a person than pretense.


I also suspect you and I share similar views on comedians and their speech being a necessary mirror for society so when there is public outcry over something one said that is considered offensive, we might both agree the problem is more with the people taking offense. I know I can be a bit dismissive of other people's hurt because of this when there is a something I perceived as contextualizing the offense in a way I accept as part of that context. And that isn't a universal view. But it's my view and I own it.

[_Some Schmo]

I vaguely recall getting into something with you but, yeah, my view of you as a poster is someone who speaks his mind with a bit of comedic wit. I do know I'm a dick, more often than I probably should be, so I can only assume that is part of my persona on the board. I guess some other things are more important to me on the board than not being perceived as a dick. And perhaps like you I find honestly far more appealing in a person than pretense.

I try very hard never to be a dick, but my dick gets in the way.

(Yeah, that was a bit of a confession.)

I also suspect you and I share similar views on comedians and their speech being a necessary mirror for society so when there is public outcry over something one said that is considered offensive, we might both agree the problem is more with the people taking offense. I know I can be a bit dismissive of other people's hurt because of this when there is a something I perceived as contextualizing the offense in a way I accept as part of that context. And that isn't a universal view. But it's my view and I own it.

I share this view 100%. I consider taking offense the same as anything else you voluntarily take. Nobody made you take it. If you don't want it, put it back.

You know, I don't think we talk enough, as a society, about the importance of context in determining what's real. Context is everything. You can take any sentence and completely alter its meaning by changing its context. People become hyper-focused on the words in a sentence rather than the sentence in the greater story. It's small-picture thinking.

I suspect one of my failures in communication on this board stems from thinking about the overall context of the thread when I post, and assuming everyone else has the thread's context in mind as well. Perhaps they do, but some choose not to focus on it for whatever reason.

[_Jersey Girl]

If you had taken time to communicate when the situation took place or shortly after, this would have likely been resolved one way or another. Instead there are now 5 posts (I counted) saying how you're not interested, ceebs, when obviously you have unfinished business to address and you're right back at square one.

[/peanut gallery]

I do wish all this would stop. I don't really mind people yelling at one another, faux-profanity, deliberate distortion and caricaturing of opponents' views - that's all part of the game here, and does nothing to hurt me in real life, apart from sometimes making me ask why I let myself play here as often as I do instead of using my time to better effect.

I think we all ask ourselves that question from time to time. I would like to know what you mean when you use the phrase "faux-profanity" if you are willing to explain.

But I don't like it when, as in Ceeboo's case, somebody appears to be suffering a sense of real personal hurt, even if I think that hurt is unreasonable.

Chap it's difficult to determine is someone is hurting and just exactly where that hurt is coming from. Is it coming from the board or from our in real life? Do we always separate the two? If a person refuses to communicate with us, there's no way to tell what's at the root and there's no way to resolve.

I don't know how to make another adult (much less a male) admit they are hurt by something that was said or say they're having a hard time in real life and it's influencing their board behaviors.

Communication is key and you cannot make others communicate with you.

I don't think Ceeboo understands something that is pretty typical on a forum, at least in my experience. Some of your strongest adversaries will be among those who are most worried when they think something is genuinely wrong with the other. Why? Because that's who you spend most of your time with.

What happened? Why'd he leave? Why'd he take his posts with him? Hell, I was just about to tell him to eff off, I hope he's okay!

I am not even close to joking there, Chap. That's real. It's happened between myself and others multiple times over the years.

Just take a bit of distance, Ceeboo. If you have managed to enrage someone you disagree with, chalk it up as a kind of success - at least he or she took notice! And then carry on regardless, smilies and all.

Perhaps that's best although, I think there has been a build up of tension here that will never be released without hashing it out. I really hate seeing it.

[_canpakes]

It's the premise behind shock collars.

Juuuuuust about lost a spoonful of custard on that one. : )

[_Chap]

I would like to know what you mean when you use the phrase "faux-profanity" if you are willing to explain.

I am referring to posts filled with dashes and asterisks, eked out by a sprinkling of permitted sub-obscenities, presumably to convey the impression 'Hey! I'm a really tough guy/gal, and if we were in a bar I'd be yelling obscenities at my interlocutors and jabbing at them with my finger while breathing beerily in their faces. Then you'd have to stop disagreeing with me.'

That is just a bit ... tiresome, I find. In part because any timid and cowardly person can do that, without ever having to back it up. It's a bit like:

[_honorentheos]

It's the premise behind shock collars.

Juuuuuust about lost a spoonful of custard on that one. : )

[_Jersey Girl]

I would like to know what you mean when you use the phrase "faux-profanity" if you are willing to explain.

I am referring to posts filled with dashes and asterisks, eked out by a sprinkling of permitted sub-obscenities, presumably to convey the impression 'Hey! I'm a really tough guy/gal, and if we were in a bar I'd be yelling obscenities at my interlocutors and jabbing at them with my finger while breathing beerily in their faces. Then you'd have to stop disagreeing with me.'

Huh?

You think that when people use swearage in their posts it's akin to yelling in a bar expressing toughness? To me, swearage is simply emphasis unless it's used in a barrage of a profanity laced attack. Swearing equals yelling and intimidation? Maybe in some cases, I suppose.

I recall that many times people interpreted my use of swear words as anger. I am almost never angry when writing my posts and if I'm aggravated or annoyed, I almost always state so straight up.

Maybe your interpretation is cultural as is mine and the two are not the same. I think that profanity is uniquely useful to convey a vast array of thought processes in a variety of situations.

The F word alone and the context in which it's used being perhaps the best example of how versatile one four letter word can be.

Anyway, thanks for answering.