Res Ipsa wrote:Christianity has had an enormous impact on the world I've lived in. It's kind of refreshing to think about it in terms of how it came about and what it means as opposed to arguing over whether it is true.
I relate to this a lot. I was still attending church and would describe myself as Christian if I no longer thought Joseph Smith was a particularly good person when I came across the books Lost Christianities and Lost Scripture in the library. Written by Bart Ehrman and written for a general audience, they threw my understanding of the period immediately following the death of Jesus into uncertainty the became an object of fascination. Over time history started clicking into place in ways I never even knew existed. Now I see it as a given the gaps in what I know far exceed the limited knowledge I've picked up but it's nicer for the opportunities for discovery.
Do you think this great course is an enjoyable listen in addition to the content being worth while? I've found audiobooks can be enhanced or completely ruined by narration that I either enjoy or otherwise so I'm curious if you enjoy listening to it?
So, I'm a little weird that way. I love to listen to podcasts. I love to read books. I don't like to listen to books. This is the second of the Great Courses I've listened to. Both were a series of lectures by university professors. So they were designed to be spoken. I've enjoyed both. (The first one was on mindfulness meditation and was excellent.) Last I looked, they were kind of pricey to purchase. But if your local library has one, my friend Libby will check them out for you and you can play them on your smartphone.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
My general view is James the brother of Jesus was a zealot in conflict with Paul. And he, James, was probably the better representative of what Jesus really taught and believed. The parables are considered the closest things we have to his actual words and they convey a mixed picture. I think the gentle Jesus is a product of Roman intervention and the Roman citizen, Paul, was instrumental in forming Christianity. I doubt the historical Jesus was close to what we'd call an early Christian as defined by Paul. But that's my take on what I've picked up over the years.
I do think Judaism is a fairly new invention, relative to the history of the Hebrew people's being a people. What we think of as being Hebrew beliefs probably didn't begin to come together until the exile around 600 BCE. We were discussing this in a thread in terrestrial recently. I'll have to go find it.
ETA: I forgot it was in stems thread about the afterlife.
honorentheos wrote:My general view is James the brother of Jesus was a zealot in conflict with Paul. And he, James, was probably the better representative of what Jesus really taught and believed. The parables are considered the closest things we have to his actual words and they convey a mixed picture. I think the gentle Jesus is a product of Roman intervention and the Roman citizen, Paul, was instrumental in forming Christianity. I doubt the historical Jesus was close to what we'd call an early Christian as defined by Paul. But that's my take on what I've picked up over the years.
I do think Judaism is a fairly new invention, relative to the history of the Hebrew people's being a people. What we think of as being Hebrew beliefs probably didn't begin to come together until the exile around 600 BCE. We were discussing this in a thread in terrestrial recently. I'll have to go find it.
Thanks. I believe I read the earlier thread, and my thoughts are pretty much the same as yours. I think of the Old Testament as a narrative constructed over time as an explanation to an entire people of things that most of wonder about: how do I relate to this world I find myself in; and why do the things I experience happen, especially the really bad ones?
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Res Ipsa wrote:So, I'm a little weird that way. I love to listen to podcasts. I love to read books. I don't like to listen to books. This is the second of the Great Courses I've listened to. Both were a series of lectures by university professors. So they were designed to be spoken. I've enjoyed both. (The first one was on mindfulness meditation and was excellent.) Last I looked, they were kind of pricey to purchase. But if your local library has one, my friend Libby will check them out for you and you can play them on your smartphone.
I own a few I picked up when Borders was going out of business for a killer deal and found some were better than others. Just like college professors. It's good to know you enjoyed it as that suggests it would be a good one to pick up.
Derailing a little, I find audiobooks hit and miss but listen to them a lot when I can at work. It depends on if I have to write or am doing more visual tasks. Recently I found I like Ryan Holiday as an author and narrator. I picked out his Ego is the Enemy after hearing him on Econtalk podcast and thinking it sounded like something I could gain from. But I'd say it's about 50/50 regarding audiobooks that I have enjoyed and others I've had to read. I've yet to find a good audiobook version of anything by Emerson which makes me sad. I love reading Emerson but wish I could listen to something when I don't have time to read.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
I re-read the post you linked to. I really like it. People wrote the Old Testament in a historical and sociological context. I think it's important to try and understand why they wrote what they did and what they were trying to communicate. But if the question is what can we learn from those writings today, I think we have to apply our current morals and ethics. That's not to judge the past using values of the present, but understanding that the writings come from a much different time and society.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
Res Ipsa wrote:So, I'm a little weird that way. I love to listen to podcasts. I love to read books. I don't like to listen to books. This is the second of the Great Courses I've listened to. Both were a series of lectures by university professors. So they were designed to be spoken. I've enjoyed both. (The first one was on mindfulness meditation and was excellent.) Last I looked, they were kind of pricey to purchase. But if your local library has one, my friend Libby will check them out for you and you can play them on your smartphone.
I own a few I picked up when Borders was going out of business for a killer deal and found some were better than others. Just like college professors. It's good to know you enjoyed it as that suggests it would be a good one to pick up.
Derailing a little, I find audiobooks hit and miss but listen to them a lot when I can at work. It depends on if I have to write or am doing more visual tasks. Recently I found I like Ryan Holiday as an author and narrator. I picked out his Ego is the Enemy after hearing him on Econtalk podcast and thinking it sounded like something I could gain from. But I'd say it's about 50/50 regarding audiobooks that I have enjoyed and others I've had to read. I've yet to find a good audiobook version of anything by Emerson which makes me sad. I love reading Emerson but wish I could listen to something when I don't have time to read.
I don't know what it is with me about audiobooks. I think maybe I'm stubborn about what I think voices should sound like when it's a book. Or I'm becoming a curmudgeon. Not sure which.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
honorentheos wrote:My general view is James the brother of Jesus was a zealot in conflict with Paul. And he, James, was probably the better representative of what Jesus really taught and believed. The parables are considered the closest things we have to his actual words and they convey a mixed picture. I think the gentle Jesus is a product of Roman intervention and the Roman citizen, Paul, was instrumental in forming Christianity. I doubt the historical Jesus was close to what we'd call an early Christian as defined by Paul. But that's my take on what I've picked up over the years.
I do think Judaism is a fairly new invention, relative to the history of the Hebrew people's being a people. What we think of as being Hebrew beliefs probably didn't begin to come together until the exile around 600 BCE. We were discussing this in a thread in terrestrial recently. I'll have to go find it.
Thanks. I believe I read the earlier thread, and my thoughts are pretty much the same as yours. I think of the Old Testament as a narrative constructed over time as an explanation to an entire people of things that most of wonder about: how do I relate to this world I find myself in; and why do the things I experience happen, especially the really bad ones?
If you ever come across a copy of the Hebrew Study Bible, I think you'd appreciate the forward for Job. Like you say above, there are timeless questions that aren't so much answered as addressed in the stories of the Old Testament. I think the HSB opened my eyes to this and did so while maintaining the connection to the way it gets uniquely posed by the Jewish people. It's interesting and a little poetic.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Res Ipsa wrote: I don't know what it is with me about audiobooks. I think maybe I'm stubborn about what I think voices should sound like when it's a book. Or I'm becoming a curmudgeon. Not sure which.
That's a good point. Maybe I need to pay attention to how Emerson sounds in my head first and then find someone whose voice and cadence captures it.
I'm pretty sure i'm just a kid shy of being on my lawn yard from becoming a curmudgeon myself.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Res Ipsa wrote:I re-read the post you linked to. I really like it. People wrote the Old Testament in a historical and sociological context. I think it's important to try and understand why they wrote what they did and what they were trying to communicate. But if the question is what can we learn from those writings today, I think we have to apply our current morals and ethics. That's not to judge the past using values of the present, but understanding that the writings come from a much different time and society.
They were telling the story of their tribe (s). That's what they were trying to communicate.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
honorentheos wrote:If you ever come across a copy of the Hebrew Study Bible, I think you'd appreciate the forward for Job. Like you say above, there are timeless questions that aren't so much answered as addressed in the stories of the Old Testament. I think the HSB opened my eyes to this and did so while maintaining the connection to the way it gets uniquely posed by the Jewish people. It's interesting and a little poetic.
Thanks for the recommendation. I may check that out. Job is one of my favorite Old Testament stories.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
It's good to know you enjoyed it as that suggests it would be a good one to pick up.