Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

[_Rosebud]

Mary, if you know Ron personally, I think he needs some help communicating. He needs to make a brief, ordered, dated list of information without commentary, trying to remove bias.... stating events as they happened without descriptive words and without attacking anyone personally.

Then he should release all documents proving the dates.

That would make a big difference. If this is real, I think he could really use some help. Right now he's shooting himself in the foot, so to speak, and pretty soon he's not going to have any toes left.

[Schreech]

Rosebud, I do not know Ron personally. I am a friend on Facebook. Having watched the video and having watched Spotlight, as well as spending pretty much 3 months as a juror on a child sexual abuse case, this is a subject that needs to be talked about in my opinion.


In the lengthy discussion that went on on my Facebook page it was clear to me that there is still a culture of secrecy around this issue with practice being messy amongst leadership.

[_Rosebud]

Also, he should remove his daughter's and his ex-wife's first names as well as all descriptive information about sexual activities. I get that from his perspective saying more might seem like a better idea than saying less, but it makes him look like an abusive asshole whether he is able to see that or not.

He should avoid trying to use any reasoning as his reasoning doesn't work. Just fact, fact, fact and then release of documentation.

[_Rosebud]

Mary, I agree this needs to be talked about. That's why I'm making these recommendations. If you feel you have enough of a relationship with him to reach out to him, this could help him a lot. If he does have high-functioning autism, he won't understand what mistakes he's making and they'll only get worse as time progresses. That won't help abuse victims at all.

[_Mary]

I can refer him to your comments. My impression is that he is a busy guy. At the very least, what you are getting is raw and unpolished. I think there is value in that. I don't doubt that he loves his kids.

[_Rosebud]

Ron, if you're not too offended by my words, I'd be happy to speak with you on the phone. I have no idea if you have high-functioning autism, of course, but if you might, I do know how to help. -RB

[_Mary]

So, just a point of legal clarification?

Is Utah a mandatory reporting state? If a member confesses to an apostle is there a legal obligation to report? Are the brethren covered by religious privilege in the case of a confession of this nature? The argument I was given by some priesthood holders is that the confessional must be held sacrosanct and that often family members want this kept *in house* and that the perpetrator *wouldn't confess* if they knew they would be reported on.

In my mind, an ecclesiastical leader should say to a member, *if you are going to confess a serious crime, you must report it to the appropriate authorities as part of the repentance process before you confess to me*. *This must happen in particularly serious matters like rape, murder, sexual abuse and any other criminal matter*.

If a child goes to an ecclesiaistical leader then the decision to make it a criminal matter should not be left in the child's hands. No question should imply or encourage a child to work through it *in house*. The adults must report and explain their behaviour as a beneficial and necessary step to the repentance process of the perpetrator.

[_Mary]

Again, if this goes to court because Micklesen pleads innocence (that is what G P Lee did), then it will be utter hell for the victim. It takes a very, very brave victim to take this matter to court. I watched it first hand. I watched the effect on the victims of a court trial. It truly is brutal.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

https://rainn.org/public-policy/legal-r ... g-children

It appears the Church would have to report abuse if Ron made a claim against Mickelsen to the latter's clergy. Correct me if I misread the statute, please.

- Doc

eta:

Who Must Report?

Any person.

Standard of Knowledge

Reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect, or who observes a child being subjected to conditions or circumstances which would reasonably result in abuse or neglect.

Definition of Applicable Victim

A child is a person under the age of 18.

Reports Made To

Utah Department of Human Services – Division of Child and Family Services (http://www.hsdcfs.utah.gov/), the nearest peace officer, or law enforcement agency. Reports may be made by telephone to the Child Abuse/Neglect Hotline at 1-855-323-3237, by email at dcfsintake@utah.gov or in person to a local division office which can be found at http://www.hsdcfs.utah.gov/locations.htm.

Timing/Other Procedures

Telephone report to be made immediately, followed by a written report within 48 hours, if requested.

Other

Willful failure to report is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, a fine of $1,000, or both. Action for failure to report must be commenced within four years from the date of knowledge of the offense and the willful failure to report.
The notification requirements do not apply to a clergyman or priest, without the consent of the person making the confession, with regard to any confession made to the clergyman or priest in the professional character of the clergyman or priest in the course of discipline enjoined by the church to which the clergyman or priest belongs, if (a) the confession was made directly to the clergyman or priest by the perpetrator; and (b) the clergyman or priest is, under canon law or church doctrine or practice, bound to maintain the confidentiality of that confession. When a clergyman or priest receives information about abuse or neglect from any source other than confession of the perpetrator, the clergyman or priest is required to give notification on the basis of that information even though the clergyman or priest may have also received a report of abuse or neglect from the confession of the perpetrator. Exemption of notification requirements for a clergyman or priest does not exempt a clergyman or priest from any other efforts required by law to prevent further abuse or neglect by the perpetrator.

Immunity.

Any person, official, or institution participating in good faith in making a report, taking photographs or X-rays, assisting an investigator, serving as a member of a child protection team, or taking a child into protective custody, is immune from any liability, civil or criminal, that otherwise might result by reason of those actions, except if the person, official, or institution: (a) acted or failed to act through fraud or willful misconduct; (b) in a judicial or administrative proceeding, intentionally or knowingly gave, upon a lawful oath or in any form allowed by law as a substitute for an oath, false testimony material to the issue or matter of inquiry in the proceeding; or (c) intentionally or knowingly: (i) fabricated evidence; or (ii) except as provided in Subsection (4) [provided below], with a conscious disregard for the rights of others, failed to disclose evidence that:(A) was known to the person, official, or institution; and (B)(I) was known by the person, official, or institution to be relevant to a material issue or matter of inquiry in a pending judicial or administrative proceeding if the person, official, or institution knew of the pending judicial or administrative proceeding; or (II) was known by the person, official, or institution to be relevant to a material issue or matter of inquiry in a judicial or administrative proceeding, if disclosure of the evidence was requested of the employee by a party to the proceeding or counsel for a party to the proceeding.Subsection (4): Immunity is not lost under Subsection (c)(ii) above if the person, official, or institution: (a) failed to disclose evidence described in Subsection (c)(ii), because the person, official, or institution is prohibited by law from disclosing the evidence; or (b)(i) refused to disclose evidence described in Subsection (c)(ii) to a person who requested the evidence; and (ii) after refusing to disclose the evidence, complied with or responded to a valid court order or valid subpoena received by the person, official, or institution to disclose the evidence.

Any person who has reason to believe that a child has died as a result of abuse or neglect shall report that fact to (a) the local law enforcement agency, who shall report to the county attorney or district attorney and (b) the appropriate medical examiner.

In addition to the duty to report child abuse or neglect, any educator who has reasonable cause to believe that a student may have been physically or sexually abused by a school employee shall immediately report that information to the school principal, superintendent or to the office. A school administrator receiving such report must immediately report the information to the office. Failure to comply shall be considered unprofessional conduct. A person who makes a report under this section in good faith shall be immune from civil or criminal liability that might otherwise arise by reason of that report.

Source/Applicable Statute(s)

UT ST §§ 53A-6-502, 62A-4a-101, 62A-4a-403, 62A-4a-408, 62A-4a-410, 62A-4a-411, 76-3-201, 76-3-204, 76-3-301 (2012).

Did Ron report the abuse, as a third party, thus obligating the Church to report the abuse? If so, and if the Church didn't follow the law, then it set itself up for a civil suit.

That said, I'm not sure when these statutes went into effect, and if that meshed well with his timelines, reporting requirements, so on and so forth...

- Doc

[_Rosebud]

Mandatory reporting in Utah (and most states) has been in effect since at least the late 80s/early 90s.

The church legal department created strict policies to protect the church from this kind of suit around that time. The policies aren't always implemented perfectly due to bishop roulette, but they've been there.

This would be the most obvious legal approach if Karren had reported, I'd think. It doesn't sound like Karren's ex-wife is making any accusations against her father, though. His daughter didn't report until 18 months after Karren made his accusations during the divorce proceedings (according to what I remember of RI's timeline).