cj1388 wrote:Hello everyone - This is my first post.
Welcome, cj. This is the place where your voice can be heard.
BKP's main problem is manifest throughout our upper leadership tier. He doesn't believe in Christ; he believes in the church. He believes in priesthood authority, not the saving grace of the Atonement. He speaks as a man, not as a mouthpiece for God.
And it's danged sad that a man could worship himself for so long.
Well said. Paul Toscano has a good article in one of his books on BKP. I believe it was a presentation at a Sunstone Symposium. Its either in, "The Sanctity of Descent", or "The Sacrament of Doubt." Toscano has a history with BKP so it may be biased, but I enjoy his view.
And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy without spot.
Roger Morrison wrote:Hi cj1388, welcome to THE Board. Enjoyed you intro. Hope to 'hear' more from You. Not sure if you are aware, that BKP piece is a hoax; so my Ward Sec EMd me today. NTL, it is quite representative of his profile.
Roger
Is the Brethren's response to it also a hoax? Someone should tell Rollo.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Roger Morrison wrote:Hi cj1388, welcome to THE Board. Enjoyed you intro. Hope to 'hear' more from You. Not sure if you are aware, that BKP piece is a hoax; so my Ward Sec EMd me today. NTL, it is quite representative of his profile.
Roger
I guess I should have waited longer to respond to verify the validity of the talk/testimony. If indeed it is made up, that's a hell of a job. I'm not quite sure what NTL means. I still stand by my statements made earlier. BKP's view of the gospel only brings despair. No one can make it, because no one can satisfy the demands of the creditor in his famous analagy. When the grace of Christ comes upon someone it forgives the debtor. At least thay is the way I see things now.
And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy without spot.
Roger Morrison wrote:Hi cj1388, welcome to THE Board. Enjoyed you intro. Hope to 'hear' more from You. Not sure if you are aware, that BKP piece is a hoax; so my Ward Sec EMd me today. NTL, it is quite representative of his profile.
Roger
Is the Brethren's response to it also a hoax? Someone should tell Rollo.
If it's a hoax, then it's being played on all Church leaders. I have the actual message.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Welcome, cj. This is the place where your voice can be heard.
BKP's main problem is manifest throughout our upper leadership tier. He doesn't believe in Christ; he believes in the church. He believes in priesthood authority, not the saving grace of the Atonement. He speaks as a man, not as a mouthpiece for God.
Harmony
You are being more harsh with the GAs than normal. I think it manifestly unfair to say he does not believe in Christ. You often chide people for judging others. You are harshly judging Packer here. I think you should reconsider.
Welcome, cj. This is the place where your voice can be heard.
BKP's main problem is manifest throughout our upper leadership tier. He doesn't believe in Christ; he believes in the church. He believes in priesthood authority, not the saving grace of the Atonement. He speaks as a man, not as a mouthpiece for God.
Harmony
You are being more harsh with the GAs than normal. I think it manifestly unfair to say he does not believe in Christ. You often chide people for judging others. You are harshly judging Packer here. I think you should reconsider.
I think he's becoming more and more of a pitbull, Jason. And he's so wrapped up in being a VIP apostle, he has no thought for the regular members of his ward. He's forgotten what the basic commandments are... he thinks in terms of money (pay your tithing) and backwoods justice (they'll get theirs). Where's the compassion? Where's the empathy? Where's the true love of Christ: charity? Good grief, for that matter, where's the wisdom? After a lifetime of being an apostle, and this is the best he can come up with?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
It is not a hoax, it is an unapproved transcript, as the official message states. Thus about as accurate as any evidence derived from diaries and journals, as used by historians. Or any reports of a public event that wasn't actually recorded. There is another thread on MMM which dissects that sort of evidence. Given the obvious TBMness of the transcriber, I doubt there is a malicious motive. Someone genuinely wanted to pass on the warning they heard from BKP.
The main problem is probably that it hasn't cleared the correlation committee.
Really, these GAs, and especially the 12, should reserve their 'speaking as a man' episodes for when they are not on the pulpit, and are having a quiet conversation with some mates. Imagine if your President or Chief of Staff did this sort of thing! Would the media go -"oh, that's alright then, he/she was speaking as a man"
Roger Morrison wrote:Hi cj1388, welcome to THE Board. Enjoyed you intro. Hope to 'hear' more from You. Not sure if you are aware, that BKP piece is a hoax; so my Ward Sec EMd me today. NTL, it is quite representative of his profile.
Roger
I guess I should have waited longer to respond to verify the validity of the talk/testimony. If indeed it is made up, that's a hell of a job. I'm not quite sure what NTL means. I still stand by my statements made earlier. BKP's view of the gospel only brings despair. No one can make it, because no one can satisfy the demands of the creditor in his famous analagy. When the grace of Christ comes upon someone it forgives the debtor. At least thay is the way I see things now.
"NTL"--None-the-less...
Rollo, I stand corrected re "hoax". However I can understand why there might be a scramble to de-barb BKP's fear/faith mongering...
Roger
Have you noticed what a beautiful day it is? Some can't... "God": nick-name for the Universe...
Roger Morrison wrote:However I can understand why there might be a scramble to de-barb BKP's fear/faith mongering...
Roger
I wonder if this was more of what BKP is really like than what we get from the conference pulpit. I mean, this didn't go through committee, receive the official stamp of approval, or have the spelling corrected. This was BKP, speaking off the cuff. Perhaps a truer talk than we've heard in a long time.
No wonder the Brethren issued a quick caution.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
It’s about time the Lord taught us a lesson. A great catastrophe is coming. Now I probably shouldn’t say that because then it will happen. But it is going to happen. That’s what it will take to turn our hearts to the Lord. And we will learn from it.
If this is an accurate transcript, official has little significance.
BKP put a HIT out on the people of the world. These are very serious words.
Let me put this into faithful perspective:
6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people. 7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.
(Book of Mormon | Helaman 10:6 - 7)
Fortunately for the human race ("wicked" or otherwise), BKP's priesthood probably doesn't have the power to command the elements. To speak the words he did demonstrates what a vindictive, naïve and twisted cranky little creep he is.