Bill Hamblin's idiotic Book of Mormon ''challenges''

[_Gadianton]

There's a difference between saying racist things and, effectively, quoting racist things.

Well, it looks like FAIR (thanks Tom) found all the same context as Mister Scratch did. Hamblin was not "effectively quoting" anyone, since no one said what he wrote. He used the suffering of an entire race to promote his own online Mopologetic agenda. I think that it's clear the word "anti-Mormon" is used in a similar though far worse way than "Morgbot" (since the machine metaphor implies hapless ignorance whereas the apologist's favorite insult implies indignity and dishonesty) but I would not compare this to the historical plight of a persecuted race. I think that is very bad form.

There is a lot that could be said about his poor comparison, I'll only mention one more thing. You can't really compare former Mormons slamming Mormonism with skinheads slamming Jews. It's obvious to everyone why.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Hamblin was not "effectively quoting" anyone, since no one said what he wrote.

That was the point of the word effectively.

Nobody was saying it there, but people have said such things. There are, sadly, vocal anti-Semites who talk in precisely that way. I've heard them, and I suspect that the Scratches have at least heard of them, too.

He used the suffering of an entire race to promote his own online Mopologetic agenda.

That's a rather ridiculous and misleading way of putting it.

I think that it's clear the word "anti-Mormon" is used in a similar though far worse way than "Morgbot" (since the machine metaphor implies hapless ignorance whereas the apologist's favorite insult implies indignity and dishonesty)

Arrant nonsense.

but I would not compare this to the historical plight of a persecuted race.

Professor Hamblin was simply pointing out the stylistic analogy between the most rabid anti-Mormon hate speech and the kind of hate speech that is typical of anti-Semites. The implicit point is that, since anti-Semitism is so obviously horrific and transcendently evil, decent people will avoid anything like thereunto.

It's risible -- to say the least of it -- to insinuate that he was somehow exploiting the dead of Auschwitz, Dachau, or Mauthausen in order to further Mormonism.

I think that is very bad form.

There is a lot that could be said about this poor comparison. I think it should be dropped.

[_Mister Scratch]

but I would not compare this to the historical plight of a persecuted race.

Professor Hamblin was simply pointing out the stylistic analogy between the most rabid anti-Mormon hate speech and the kind of hate speech that is typical of anti-Semites. The implicit point is that, since anti-Semitism is so obviously horrific and transcendently evil, decent people will avoid anything like thereunto.

The "implicit point" is that "anti-Mormons" and "anti-Semites" (like the Skinheads and the Nazis) are basically the same thing. Mopologists have long tried to draw this parallel.

It's risible -- to say the least of it -- to insinuate that he was somehow exploiting the dead of Auschwitz, Dachau, or Mauthausen in order to further Mormonism.

Well, he was.

I think that is very bad form.

No kidding. If I were you, I would urge Prof. Hamblin to issue a public apology on FAIR. Better yet, why don't you invite him over here, so he can explain himself?

[_Daniel Peterson]

You're posting ridiculous nonsense, Scratch.

But what's new?

[Physics Guy]

You're posting ridiculous nonsense, Scratch.

But what's new?

You're failing to provide even passably adequate counterargument. But what's new?

by the way: When can we expect Prof. Hamblin to drop by?

[_Gadianton]

Hamblin was clearly out of line here, and I'm as astonished as Dr. Peterson is that FAIR chose to immortalize his words like they did. Hamblin very well may have not intended anything sinister by making this speech, but it does not look good at all for the church. His intention may not have been to "use" anyone, but that is the result. And going through the detailed laundry list like he did of slurs just makes it that much more problematic.

And it's not true that Hamblin was trying to point out the worst of anti-Mormon speech is comparable to the worst anti-Semite speech, he was trying to point out that the "anti-Mormon speech" on RFM, mostly by former Mormons or Mormons in transition who still have family and friends that they love in the church, is comparable to the worst anti-Semite speech that goes hand in hand with people who actually really hate Jewish people and do or wish to cause them serious harm. Context...like you said.

[_Daniel Peterson]

by the way: When can we expect Prof. Hamblin to drop by?

It's certainly not going to be until after you or one of the subordinate Scratches invite him. (Though it probably won't happen then, either, of course.)

Why the fetish about having me invite him?

If you really want him here, you can invite him every bit as easily as I can. His publicly-available e-mail address is william_hamblin@BYU.edu.

[_Runtu]

It's certainly not going to be until after you or one of the subordinate Scratches invite him. (Though it probably won't happen then, either, of course.)

Why the fetish about having me invite him?

If you really want him here, you can invite him every bit as easily as I can. His publicly-available e-mail address is william_hamblin@BYU.edu.

Well, I for one don't care if Brother Hamblin comes over here. My only interaction with him, as I said, was unpleasant and entirely without substantive response from him.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Well, I for one don't care if Brother Hamblin comes over here. My only interaction with him, as I said, was unpleasant and entirely without substantive response from him.

Your loss.

He's far and away one of the brightest and most consistently insightful people I've ever known.

(And I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have written this if I thought he were ever likely to see it.)

[_antishock8]

I have a hard time believing most people would equate this:





with RFM.