Mormon official challenges 'cult' designation

[_Buffalo]

Can we all agree that, at the very least, the 19th century church met most expert's definitions of what we understand a cult to be? I mean cult in the most commonly understood meaning of the word.

[_Themis]

Can we all agree that, at the very least, the 19th century church met most expert's definitions of what we understand a cult to be? I mean cult in the most commonly understood meaning of the word.

And what would that be. Could you provide a source say like from a dictionary.

[_Jonah]

Think "Heaven's Gate." The guy had enough control to make a group of people commit suicide!

That's probably more along the lines of what a "cult" actually is.

I kind of feel that making a covenant and promise before God to consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ to be controlling. Maybe just a little.

Seems to me that some guy has enough control to make a group of people surrender all they have to the church. Or is it only controlling and/or cultish if someone dies?

[_moksha]

The word cult has become a very derogative word. Those who use it to categorize established religions do so with a malicious intent.

[_Buffalo]

I'm interested in finding out your opinion about how a cult exerts control over it's membership and how that differs from the Church (oJCoLDS)?

Think "Heaven's Gate." The guy had enough control to make a group of people commit suicide!

That's probably more along the lines of what a "cult" actually is.

Also, Golden Dawn, Argenteum Astrum, and Thelema, in my opinion, began as cults -- Thelema in Crowley's time, but I'm unsure about it now. I think it's officially recognized as a religion in the UK. I don't think Golden Dawn or A:.A:. are practiced anymore (could be wrong).

Think of the early church. Joseph had enough control to get women to cheat on their husbands and men to cheat on their wives! He even got some men to voluntarily share their wives with him.

[_Buffalo]

Can we all agree that, at the very least, the 19th century church met most expert's definitions of what we understand a cult to be? I mean cult in the most commonly understood meaning of the word.

And what would that be. Could you provide a source say like from a dictionary.

A dictionary isn't useful - what is needed are lists of characteristics commonly found in most cults. Dictionaries are too limited in scope.

Example that was posted before:

http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

[_Buffalo]

The word cult has become a very derogative word. Those who use it to categorize established religions do so with a malicious intent.

Is it malicious to refer to the Church of Scientology as a cult?

[_Themis]

A dictionary isn't useful - what is needed are lists of characteristics commonly found in most cults. Dictionaries are too limited in scope.

LOL Of course a dictionary is not useful. We should just throw them out the window when they don't give us the definition we want. Words mean soemthing until we don't like what they mean so we go somewhere else or just make up new meanings. This is why the word cult is not very useful anymore. Everyone is making up definitions to suit their agendas. We see this with other words with apologetics as well.

[_Buffalo]

A dictionary isn't useful - what is needed are lists of characteristics commonly found in most cults. Dictionaries are too limited in scope.

LOL Of course a dictionary is not useful. We should just throw them out the window when they don't give us the definition we want. Words mean soemthing until we don't like what they mean so we go somewhere else or just make up new meanings. This is why the word cult is not very useful anymore. Everyone is making up definitions to suit their agendas. We see this with other words with apologetics as well.

I hope you know that that was not what I meant. Again, I said a dictionary is too limited in scope. Example:

cult (kʌlt)

3. a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents

This is the relevant definition, but it does not go into enough detail.

Are you the kind of guy who began every talk with a reference to Webster's?

[_keithb]

Two thoughts:

First, unless you're an atheist/skeptic or you believe in some sort of New Age religion with no central organization, you should be very careful about throwing around the term cult. Most of the characteristics described in here could be applied to most religions -- at least in some limited fashion -- and there are a lot of cases of "pot meet kettle" on message boards like this one, especially when other Christian denominations apply the term to Mormons. Is Joseph Smith worship really any less weird than saint or Virgin Mary worship? Is an extreme in following TSM really stranger than an extreme in following (now defunct) Ted Haggard?

Second, I think that Runtu is right. The use of the word "cult" isn't particularly useful when talking about religion because it is an ill-defined term and carries with it a lot of baggage. As shown by this thread, it is also usually used as a pejorative to indicate a religion with which the user of the word doesn't agree. So, I think that it's better to use specifics to describe a religion and not a term like cult.