Found the truth, what next?

[_just me]

Well, I don't have much advice. Other than showing an increase in love and perhaps making changes slowly.

In my experience, and reading those of others, as soon as your spouse knows you don't believe or seriously doubt your feelings and opinions on all things religion, spirit, moral and scriptures will be void. You are automatically wrong as soon as you open your mouth, more or less. You will be talked about and in less than flattering terms. You are a tool of satan and have lost the spirit.

I don't know if its fair to assume his wife is this way at all. If you go into it thinking your spouse will respond thusly, then you probably aren't going to go into in the right spirit, I'd assume. better safely go into it without assuming that your spouse will behave poorly than go into it assumign your spouse will be really bad like this.

I didn't assume his wife would react this way.

Winston, I have gotten the same reaction from my H, my mom and my bishop and at least one of my SIL. My dad was much more open and accepting, I think because he is a convert.
I've been told I am a tool of the devil, not the same person, damaged, in need of professional counseling, a covenant breaker, lost the spirit, a bad mother, selfish, etc, etc.

I am just trying to give you a heads-up for how it very likely will go down. Most of these not-so-nice things are said out of misguided love and caring...and fear. I understand that. It doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt and damage relationships.

The other spouse also very often becomes more hardcore about the church. They will pray more, read scriptures and DesBooks more, they will go to the temple more, hold family home evening more, etc. You may find yourself excluded from blessings and other family spiritual events without even being asked if you would like to join in.

I would guess many spouses would indeed rely heavily on their spiritual experience as the measure of what to believe. I do not think most spouses will treat the other with contempt or attempt to exclude anyone from anything. But when a spouse who relies heavily on the spiritual is treated poorly by the spouse who thinks such is all fairy tales then there's a problem. By all means, Winston, don't do that.

I'm speaking from my own experience. I'm hoping that Winston has the reading comprehension skills to understand that.

Basically, it sucks. And if the main reason a couple got married is because they share the LDS faith in common.....it doesn't bode well. If that was the main thing in common and then it is lost without other things to fall back on the relationship is essentially gone.

Its a big thing--religion. A Change in religion amounts to a lot of changes in life. That's why I realize this is a big deal. It'd be tough.

Yes, yes it is. And marital love is not unconditional.

Winston, I wanted to add that I would recommend refraining from making any promises. For example, my H would ask me if I was going to leave the church, I told him I didn't know, my beliefs changed so much in such a short period of time I didn't know what the future would hold. Also, I recommend not promising to "raise the children LDS" and don't promise to keep your beliefs secret from them. A lot of spouses do try to get the non-believer to promise to keep their mouth shut around the kids.

[_Rambo]

Ceeboo, I think you are a good guy but I think this is very dangerous as well. You really don't know Mormonism as intimate as many of us here do. It is deep rooted into peoples skin and a husband leaving the church or a wife, I think in most cases causes a divorce.

Most cases? I don't' know about that. But Rambo is the self-proclaimed expert on all Mormons I suppose.

Well I don't have the stats but I do know a lot of people personally that have had a divorce because one of the spouses left the church. The other spouse always says it's because he or she left the church. Sure there were probably more things going on in the marriage I don't know about. I'm thinking leaving the church was probably the biggest reason though because that's what they keep saying.

Did I say I was a self proclaimed expert? I do admit I have a lot of experience with Mormons, 29 years of experience. Does that make me an expert? I'm guessing more experience Stem but we seem to have different experience than each other cause we live in a different place or you ward is a lot different than the wards I grew up in.

I will say this though my wards seemed to be the typical LDS ward where the one you have described seemed to be a little different. I guess it's my word against your word though or my Mom against you Mom ;)

[_stemelbow]

I didn't assume his wife would react this way.

Your words were, "as soon as your spouse knows you don't believe or seriously doubt your feelings and opinions on all things religion, spirit, moral and scriptures will be void. You are automatically wrong as soon as you open your mouth, more or less. You will be talked about and in less than flattering terms. You are a tool of satan and have lost the spirit"

Winston, I have gotten the same reaction from my H, my mom and my bishop and at least one of my SIL. My dad was much more open and accepting, I think because he is a convert.
I've been told I am a tool of the devil, not the same person, damaged, in need of professional counseling, a covenant breaker, lost the spirit, a bad mother, selfish, etc, etc.

That's a shame. No doubt Mormons and non-mormons can be harsh. But let us not assume they will and thus, furthering the divide.

I am just trying to give you a heads-up for how it very likely will go down. Most of these not-so-nice things are said out of misguided love and caring...and fear. I understand that. It doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt and damage relationships.

That's a good point. On the flip its probably wise to avoid being condescending and rude, or deceitful as some advocate here.

I'm speaking from my own experience. I'm hoping that Winston has the reading comprehension skills to understand that.

Alright, I love the "blame stem" attitude, but you clearly misspoke if you did not intend to put it in a personal "you" way to Winston.

Yes, yes it is. And marital love is not unconditional.

for some.

[_Rambo]

Your words were, "as soon as your spouse knows you don't believe or seriously doubt your feelings and opinions on all things religion, spirit, moral and scriptures will be void. You are automatically wrong as soon as you open your mouth, more or less. You will be talked about and in less than flattering terms. You are a tool of satan and have lost the spirit"

I have found this too and it's pretty reasonable that his wife might act this way.

That's a good point. On the flip its probably wise to avoid being condescending and rude, or deceitful as some advocate here.

This is actually good advice Stem. Don't be condescending or rude. This friend of mine that divorced her husband said that he told her he is too smart to believe in god. This is something she remembered and of course it was a huge insult to her. That was the wrong way for this guy to go about it. Although, I don't think bringing your concerns up slowly is deceitful. It just gives your spouse time to understand where you are coming from.

[_stemelbow]

You are definitely in the minority at church.

In more ways than one(; but so?

Definitely some times with good reason. I find apologists pretending we don't know as much as we do, simply to protect belief.

Of coruse that’s your perspective at it protects your beliefs on the matter (;

Their witnesses represent good evidence that Joseph was putting his head in a hat and and the scribe was writing down what he said. But we have more when we look at the Book of Mormon itself that shows it was not translated, but a 19th century production.

Your conclusion, though dogmatic enough, remains contested. I would hope you would have the wherewithal to realize that what you conclude may change as scholarship is pursued on the matter. But oh well. I know in discussing this with you, I’ll get nowhere.

For how it was claimed to be translated, yes, but who cares. We have so much more like the facsimiles and papyri that shows so much evidence that Joseph was making it up.

Oh boy. Its easiest to be dogmatic. There is plenty left to pursue in understanding this topic. I think it takes a great deal of assuming to reach the conclusions that are often reached on this topic. But it’s a deep one, a popular one among critics, and I admit to being less interested so I’ll leave it at that.

That should be your first clue it was not from God.

Such doesn’t necessary follow. Let’s stop being dogmatic and discuss if you wish.

I think for most it is not polygamy, but how Joseph went about it.

But there’s a lot to dispute on that. And ultimately, whether Joseph Smith acted appropriate all the time doesn’t really help much in the whole of it. We all can accept that he wasn’t perfect, as they say.

Of course you are not. Skousen is supported by the evidence. Brant's makes most of it up with possibilities without good evidence. We have seen you play the possibility game a lot around here. I respect Skousen for going with the evidence, and not getting into the made up tight/loose translation.

The jury is still out for me. I didn’t realize you had read Brant’s new book. When did you read it?

I agree. He should try to give her information devoid of emotions or even his opinion on it, so she can digest it without as much bias as possible.

Then lets end with this agreement.

[_stemelbow]

Well I don't have the stats but I do know a lot of people personally that have had a divorce because one of the spouses left the church. The other spouse always says it's because he or she left the church. Sure there were probably more things going on in the marriage I don't know about. I'm thinking leaving the church was probably the biggest reason though because that's what they keep saying.

Well stats would be needed for your claim to have any merit. Your obscure, and biased perspective doesn't help on the whole.

Did I say I was a self proclaimed expert? I do admit I have a lot of experience with Mormons, 29 years of experience. Does that make me an expert? I'm guessing more experience Stem but we seem to have different experience than each other cause we live in a different place or you ward is a lot different than the wards I grew up in.

I was teasing you about being an expert. You just happen to make a lot of dogmatic pronouncements in a "I"m an expert" fashion about Mormons. I'd wager your anecdotal experience is right on on some things and far off on others. Perhaps perspective has something to do with t hat.

I will say this though my wards seemed to be the typical LDS ward where the one you have described seemed to be a little different. I guess it's my word against your word though or my Mom against you Mom ;)

Its neither. Its time to stop with all the dogmatic attempts to come off as an expert and realize much of this takes a lot more than assumption and perspective to draw the types of conclusions you do.

[_stemelbow]

I have found this too and it's pretty reasonable that his wife might act this way.

Sure, but putting it in the "your wife will do this" way seems pretty presumptuous and perhaps a little mean and thoughtless. Afterall, I assume he loves his wife and knows her far more than Just Me, or you.

This is actually good advice Stem. Don't be condescending or rude. This friend of mine that divorced her husband said that he told her he is too smart to believe in god. This is something she remembered and of course it was a huge insult to her. That was the wrong way for this guy to go about it. Although, I don't think bringing your concerns up slowly is deceitful. It just gives your spouse time to understand where you are coming from.

I would suggest that many spouses who lose their faith are pretty condescending and rude. On the flip the remaining believing spouse is probably often condescending and rude too. That's at least one thing that what makes it tough, i'm sure.

[_Rambo]

Well I don't have the stats but I do know a lot of people personally that have had a divorce because one of the spouses left the church. The other spouse always says it's because he or she left the church. Sure there were probably more things going on in the marriage I don't know about. I'm thinking leaving the church was probably the biggest reason though because that's what they keep saying.

Well stats would be needed for your claim to have any merit. Your obscure, and biased perspective doesn't help on the whole.

Did I say I was a self proclaimed expert? I do admit I have a lot of experience with Mormons, 29 years of experience. Does that make me an expert? I'm guessing more experience Stem but we seem to have different experience than each other cause we live in a different place or you ward is a lot different than the wards I grew up in.

I was teasing you about being an expert. You just happen to make a lot of dogmatic pronouncements in a "I"m an expert" fashion about Mormons. I'd wager your anecdotal experience is right on on some things and far off on others. Perhaps perspective has something to do with t hat.

I will say this though my wards seemed to be the typical LDS ward where the one you have described seemed to be a little different. I guess it's my word against your word though or my Mom against you Mom ;)

Its neither. Its time to stop with all the dogmatic attempts to come off as an expert and realize much of this takes a lot more than assumption and perspective to draw the types of conclusions you do.

That's why I said I think. Sure it is from my percpective but I didn't say I was postive about it. I'm just giving advice based on what I have seen. Stop trying to make me look like I have said stuff that I haven't really said. You say a lot of things based on your percpective as well.

[_just me]

I didn't assume his wife would react this way.

Your words were, "as soon as your spouse knows you don't believe or seriously doubt your feelings and opinions on all things religion, spirit, moral and scriptures will be void. You are automatically wrong as soon as you open your mouth, more or less. You will be talked about and in less than flattering terms. You are a tool of satan and have lost the spirit"

This is why people get frustrated with you, stem. You have poor reading comprehension. That is not a slam, it is the truth. I'm sorry that you are unable to see it.

Let's all take a moment to look at the portion of my sentence that you CUT out.

"In my experience, and reading those of others"

Now, this part prefaces my entire comment. When trying to understand the rest of my comment, one must first understand this portion, for it tells us where my comment comes from and also explains that "your" is a general "your" and not specific to Winston.

Winston, I have gotten the same reaction from my H, my mom and my bishop and at least one of my SIL. My dad was much more open and accepting, I think because he is a convert.
I've been told I am a tool of the devil, not the same person, damaged, in need of professional counseling, a covenant breaker, lost the spirit, a bad mother, selfish, etc, etc.

That's a shame. No doubt Mormons and non-Mormons can be harsh. But let us not assume they will and thus, furthering the divide.

Winston came here for help. I am offering him my personal experience on the matter. He can then choose his words and actions based on the possible outcomes.

I am just trying to give you a heads-up for how it very likely will go down. Most of these not-so-nice things are said out of misguided love and caring...and fear. I understand that. It doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt and damage relationships.

That's a good point. On the flip its probably wise to avoid being condescending and rude, or deceitful as some advocate here.

CFR that anyone has advocated being condescending or rude to his wife.

I'm speaking from my own experience. I'm hoping that Winston has the reading comprehension skills to understand that.

all right, I love the "blame stem" attitude, but you clearly misspoke if you did not intend to put it in a personal "you" way to Winston.

What did I blame on you, stem? I clearly did not misspeak, you clearly misread. If anyone agrees with you (aside from why me) I would ask that they tell me so that I can work on my written communication skills.

Yes, yes it is. And marital love is not unconditional.

for some.

You may want to look up the word unconditional.

[_stemelbow]

This is why people get frustrated with you, stem. You have poor reading comprehension. That is not a slam, it is the truth. I'm sorry that you are unable to see it.

Let's all take a moment to look at the portion of my sentence that you CUT out.

"In my experience, and reading those of others"

Now, this part prefaces my entire comment. When trying to understand the rest of my comment, one must first understand this portion, for it tells us where my comment comes from and also explains that "your" is a general "your" and not specific to Winston

I can see how you meant it with your explanations. I’m just pointing out what you said. In responding to him, you identified his spouse as acting that way based on your experience. Sadly, you don’t have experience with his spouse at all. Your experience might not, in fact, translate at all. I don’t think its unhelpful to suggest a spouse could act that way. What’s unhelpful would be for him to take it that his spouse will go that route, and then it turns out she doesn’t. That’s all.

Winston came here for help. I am offering him my personal experience on the matter. He can then choose his words and actions based on the possible outcomes.

Fine by me. I’ll assume Winston is a far more intelligent person than I. I think he’ll choose wisely how to proceed. And I think there is some helpful ideas put forth here.

CFR that anyone has advocated being condescending or rude to his wife.

I think treating a believer as a “brainwashed” victim as Schmoe advocates meets that criteria quite well, don’t you?

What did I blame on you, stem? I clearly did not misspeak, you clearly misread. If anyone agrees with you (aside from why me) I would ask that they tell me so that I can work on my written communication skills.

Don’t worry you’re in safe company here. No one will call you on this here. They’ll just call those who they disagree with on stuff like this, it seems.

You may want to look up the word unconditional.

No need.