Apostasy's A Bummer

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_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Droopy »

Given that Kevin said nothing about Don's perceptions about such things, why should he clarify? Don never said he had any issues. No one did. You apparently misread Kevin's post.


No, you're just riding to the rescue, squirting ink.

Standard circling of the wagons (of which there is no doubt, because if Don was a clear and unambiguous member of the apologetics movement, you and Kevin wouldn't defend him if it was the last thing you ever did on this earth. Does Kevin defend me, Wade, Will Gee, Rhodes, Peterson, Nibley, etc? This tells me that Don holds some importance for people like you and Graham who remain outside the church as perennial critics as a kind of iconic figure who can stand within the church but at the same time in some sense assuage the conscience of critics outside it by lending support to their core motives. I don't know what it is, but I do know that Don seems to hold an unusual place within LDS intellectual circles regarding that which he represents to critics of it.

His close relationship to Graham - one of the most hostile, visceral, and deeply alienated apostate critics in modern history, at least on the Internet, while he seems distant from, say, Book of Abraham apologetics, is interesting, to say the least.


This is an odd place to stand, and that's all I'm trying to get at. Kevin seems to have fled the field of battle, so we'll have to see what he comes up with).
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I've "fled" nothing idiot. I responded twice now, eleven and three minutes ago.

You just keep making a fool of yourself.
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_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Droopy »

Jesus, you're daft.


Please don't call Jesus names.


As someone who left the Church, yes, Don had similar experiences, at the time of his apostasy. Those experiences give him unique insight into what other apostates are going through, what drives them, etc, which was my point. But Don has since returned to the Church, and nothing I have said "implied" that Don still has problems with the Church.


As you know him fairly well, I wonder if you could elucidate, to the best of your knowledge, what Don's views at the present time are on the church's core truth claims regarding the Book of Abraham; that it is the translation of an authentic ancient text, that the original autograph was written by Abraham himself, and that as a translated text, it has no relation per se to the 19th century?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Kevin Graham »

As you know him fairly well, I wonder if you could elucidate, to the best of your knowledge, what Don's views at the present time are on the church's core truth claims regarding the Book of Abraham; that it is the translation of an authentic ancient text, that the original autograph was written by Abraham himself, and that as a translated text, it has no relation per se to the 19th century?


What part of "I do not know and I do not care" do you not understand?

What part of "it isn't my place nor is it any of my business" do you not understand?

If you want to know the answers to these personal questions, I suggest you PM Don and ask him yourself.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Droopy »

Kevin Graham wrote:This of course, runs contrary to your caricature of me as the hateful apostate.

"I've "fled" nothing dip****."

"You just keep making a fool of yourself."

"Jesus, you're daft."


I could go back to the MDDB archives and pull up hundreds, if not thousands of vicious, obnoxious, hateful, bigoted, mean-spirited, vile, persona attacks, put-downs, and character smears against literally everyone Kevin has ever disagreed with in the apologetic community over a number of years. I could write a book filled with nothing but Graham's spleen venting against individual defenders of the Church.

The very fact that this individual can come here and lie in public with a vengence about the the manner in which he has presented himself in public and behaved in public for many years now is indicative of exactly the deep psychopathology that drives this individual and animates the style and manner in which he argues his cases (which, for the most part, is composed, not of argument, but of ad hominem smarm and breast beating regarding his own intellectual eminence and self importance).

A divine comedy indeed.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Kevin Graham
_Emeritus
Posts: 13037
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Graham - one of the most hostile, visceral, and deeply alienated apostate critics in modern history


I'm alienated by whom??

If any of this were true, would I be the one who was invited to participate on the most popular pro-Mormon forum, the same one that threw you out?

Would I be contacted by respected LDS scholars, out of the blue (the same ones who think you're an embarrassment to Mormonism)?

The very fact that this individual can come here and lie in public with a vengence about the the manner in which he has presented himself in public and behaved in public for many years now is indicative of exactly the deep psychopathology that drives this individual and animates the style and manner in which he argues his cases (which, for the most part, is composed, not of argument, but of ad hominem smarm and breast beating regarding his own intellectual eminence and self importance).


Who has lied, and about what? All you do is blather one stupid assertion after another, claiming you could document them if you wanted to.

Your inability to achieve basic comprehension is hardly evidence that I've lied. No one on this forum interpreted my comments the way you chose to interpret them, and that's probably because unlike you, Runtu is an educated guy who has a stranglehold on the English language.

Now that your little theory about me hyperventilating in retreat over something I never said, has been completely shot out of the water, you're back to the usual spin move. You know, wash, rinse, repeat. That's par for the course.
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_Shulem
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Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Shulem »

Why are you fine apostate chaps bothering to converse with Droopy? Heck, I have him on ignore because I realized that feeding the troll wasn't a good thing. He needs the attention and will stay composed so long as you feed him. But ignore him and watch him go nuts. Then he can retreat and start writing silly poetry and come back drunk and start badmouthing and foaming at the mouth like a junk yard dog. That's the Droopy that intertains us. Droopy craves attention. Don't give it to him. Starve him to death!

I can't see you Droopy!

:lol:

Paul O
_Stormy Waters

Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Stormy Waters »

Droopy wrote:Nowhere here did I accuse of any of these people, as a group, of being driven by hate, malice, or of being guilty of horrendous moral sins.


I'll highlight the important words for you.

Stormy Waters wrote:
Droopy wrote:You are driven by hate, sour grapes, and a crippling narcissism, but I've never said anything about all those who leave the church as a group.

Droopy earlier today.
Droopy wrote:People leave the church for a variety of reasons, all of which, in the end, revolve around an unwillingness and personal resistance to accepting and living its standards and principles, not around anything Daniel Peterson has ever said.
_Kevin Graham
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:44 pm

Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Kevin Graham »

yes
_Droopy
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Apostasy's A Bummer

Post by _Droopy »

Kevin Graham wrote:As you know him fairly well, I wonder if you could elucidate, to the best of your knowledge, what Don's views at the present time are on the church's core truth claims regarding the Book of Abraham; that it is the translation of an authentic ancient text, that the original autograph was written by Abraham himself, and that as a translated text, it has no relation per se to the 19th century?

What part of "I do not know and I do not care" do you not understand?


I knew you'd run away with your proverbial tail between your proverbial legs with that question, Kevin. Which is why I asked it. You know what Hauglid thinks about this issue, and I'm sure you know what Don thinks. Its been your bread and butter for years, and I highly doubt it would not have come up, and extensively, in your continuing relationship with him. You've long attacked me, Wade, and others with your name dropping of "LDS scholars" who come to sit at your feet to receive morsels of wisdom. OK, as you are an enemy of the Church, and don't believe or accept virtually any of its core truth claims, we must wonder why "LDS" scholars would be making any common cause with you at all. Its a fair question. Tell us then,l who these LDS Scholars are, and on what points important to apologetic they agree with you and your viewpoints.

What part of "it isn't my place nor is it any of my business" do you not understand?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHoPYLQvnQM

If you want to know the answers to these personal questions, I suggest you PM Don and ask him yourself.


They're not personal, or you wouldn't have been name dropping and implying scholarly support for your own views from within the apologetic community for the last couple of years and basking in the glow of all the alleged LDS scholars who think defending the Church's position on the Book of Abraham is a lost cause.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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