But they keep finding witches...

[_Kevin Graham]

Wasn't talking about Trump innocence. Only talking about the indictment and lack of proof of Russian involvement. An indictment doesn't constitute strong evidence.

An indictment only comes after the conclusion of a grand jury (between 16-23 people) which makes its decision to indict based on evidence. If they choose not to, the prosecutor can still indict only if he presents enough evidence to the judge.

Your notion that no evidence can exist unless The Blaze says so, is just dumb.

[_Chap]

Wasn't talking about Trump innocence. Only talking about the indictment and lack of proof of Russian involvement. An indictment doesn't constitute strong evidence.

An indictment only comes after the conclusion of a grand jury (between 16-23 people) which makes its decision to indict based on evidence. If they choose not to, the prosecutor can still indict only if he presents enough evidence to the judge.

Your notion that no evidence can exist unless The Blaze says so, is just dumb.

Yup. An indictment is much more than "I've got a funny feeling about this". Failure to understand legal processes is one thing. Fingers in ears and shouting 'la-la-la-la-la, can't hear you!" is another.

[Guest]

You talk in the other thread about unifying, how does this indictment serve that? Say Russia did leak the emails. That's true. And their goal is to screw with us. Would this indictment not play directly into their hands?

I'm not advocating for unity in the way you imply. I'm questioning the rational of no longer viewing what it means to be American as more important than being a Republican or Democrat, and that we ought to consider the wisdom of the old adage of our differences ending at our shores. What purpose does the indictment serve? It is intended to protect the electoral process of the United States from hostile intentions and actions by a foreign national intelligence agency. Let's be clear, the Trump administration got pulled into the net of the investigation because the FBI was following Russian activities and it led them there. Whether or not there will be explicit collusion identified or something else will be something we'll get to argue about in the future. But goddamn it makes no sense to argue in defense of Russian aggression towards the United States, Dog.

The only accomplishment here is to make Trump appear illegitimate. Country polarizes even more, people dig in an pick sides. Creates potential disruptions for Trump overseas as well. Can't work with the Russians, they're now a proxy of the Russian state. If the allegations are true that the Russians are responsible, that's the best argument for not having the special investigation to begin with. Which is what Dershowitz said in the link I dropped. The FBI could have produced this indictment on its own without a special investigation.

Suppose Trump had taken office in 2017 and let the world know he was supporting the US intelligence community in their efforts to protect the American electoral system. Of course there would be dumb idiots on the liberal side who would have demanded that Trump step down just on the suggestion of Russian interference because that's just how crap is. There is a wide spectrum of views on every issue represented in our nation. But on the whole, it would be hard to argue that the investigation alone would serve to delegitimize Trump's presidency in and of itself had he simply acted in the most minimal way as one would expect the President to act when told Russia was actively meddling in our elections.

So why then is it a divisive issue if it is not inherently due to the FBI doing it's job in investigating Russian aggression on our shores through electronic warfare? Seriously, Dog. Explain to me how the FBI doing their job is bad for America if we subtract out the resistance the Trump admin has shown towards it.

[_EAllusion]

Indictments aren't equivalent to guilt and an indictment shouldn't be taken that way. But we have lots of evidence available to us.

[_Chap]

... we have lots of evidence available to us.

Yup. And that's why there are indictments.

[_Kevin Graham]

The only accomplishment here is to make Trump appear illegitimate.

He is, and we've known this for a long time now.

Country polarizes even more, people dig in an pick sides.

You have a President literally mocking one side of the media refusing to take questions, insulting them publicly, doing interviews only with his now appointed state media outlet, demanding at every opportunity that Americans elect ONLY Republicans, making wise cracks against Democrats whenever given the opportunity, appointing far Right judges at record pace, enabling white supremacists/Nazis to crawl out of the woodwork for one last hurrah, but you think the country would only become polarized if Trump is found guilty of treason?

Yeah, you're just a useless shill. Because Trump has already done what you suddenly claim to be concerned about.

Creates potential disruptions for Trump overseas as well. Can't work with the Russians, they're now a proxy of the Russian state.

Obviously none of this has affected Trump's approach to Russia. He's still in denial about what they did, he's still planning to meet Putin, and he's still babbling about how this was all on Obama and he refuses to take any action because he's been claiming for years now that Russia didn't interfere with the elections. By the way, what should Obama have done about it? Sanctions? Maybe expel a dozen diplomats? Done. What has Trump done? He's done nothing but kiss their asses and act on their behalf while attacking our allies and NATO. Exactly what Putin wants from him.

If the allegations are true that the Russians are responsible, that's the best argument for not having the special investigation to begin with.

Said no one with a brain.

Which is what Dershowitz said in the link I dropped. The FBI could have produced this indictment on its own without a special investigation.

Try to pay more attention to actual current events instead of the spin provided you by the Blaze and FOX.

[_Brackite]

Trump has always said he 'hires the best people'.

Yep, and Trump hired both Sessions and Rosenstein. Hannity used to kind of like Rosenstein, but Hannity has been bashing Rosenstein over the last several months. And I don't think that Hannity likes Sessions that much anymore.

[_Kevin Graham]

Trump has always said he 'hires the best people'.

Yep, and Trump hired both Sessions and Rosenstein. Hannity used to kind of like Rosenstein, but Hannity has been bashing Rosenstein over the last several months. And I don't think that Hannity likes Sessions that much anymore.

He also hired Manafort, Bannon, Flynn, Papadopulous, etc..

[_Kevin Graham]

That isn't to say Manafort isn't legitimately guilty of something. Maybe he is. The charges against him, however, do not, even in the most remote and tenuous of ways, allege collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

You Trump supporters have your heads so far up your asses over collusion that you think that if he's not proven guilty of this then he is completely innocent of everything.

Manafort bank fraud trial does have Trump campaign connection, Mueller's team says

Of course, when you're living in the land of the Blaze and stuck to reading Right Wing propaganda rags like Federalist, well you're not likely to have come across such pertinent information.

Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice and violating the emoluments clause of the Constitution. But hey, who cares right? You have a Republican Congress who won't impeach him because it hurts their interests. The country be damned.

[_Maksutov]

The Dog isn't willing to give up the prez yet. Fair enough. Due process hasn't happened for him yet either. Let the investigations continue. Whitewater lasted how long and was based on what?