8 Years of suffering under Obama.

[_honorentheos]

Over the last few years Ajax has consistently argued that Trump is doing what is in the interests of America and not prioritizing being a citizen of the world over being an American.

I'm sincerely curious, Ajax. Could you give a specific example from the Obama years that shows he was more concerned with the interests of other nations over our own?

[_Some Schmo]

That's a leftist spin. False accusations of racism is all you have to counter economic nationalism.

You are such a damned liar. You don't believe that, unless you're a damned moron.

False accusations of racism...

Hmmm... Moron certainly does fit. Tough choice.

[_canpakes]

Trump wants what’s in Trump’s best interest. The idea that he is working on behalf of whites is the fundamental grift to provide cover for severe corruption. That’s why it is crucial to not confuse his racist acts with being a an advocate on behalf of whites. He’s picking Ajax’s pocket, who is happy to allow it so long as Trump punishes brown people.

Exactly. Trump will do and say what he needs to do in order to serve a very restricted agenda, with the dominant item being his desire to be re-elected as he believes every day in office serves his brand. He can otherwise be convinced to sign off on any legislative item that narrowly serves some or another corporate or nationalist agenda so long as it can be painted as serving the Base’s interest - who, generally speaking, cannot be bothered to think through the real cause, intent and consequences (example above with trade).

I don’t think that ajax could provide a convincing list of ways that Trump has helped the average working citizen.

[_Maksutov]

How many Americans would you kill for Trump, Ajax? We know you want to. You celebrate people who owned others and committed treason, trashed the Constitution and basic morality for their own greed, ignorance and malice. Why not carry your racist ideology into the present? We know you want to. The Turner Diaries is your guide, isn't it? And that of these loser white guys shooting up brown people because they can't/won't compete...you know, your soul brothers.

[_Some Schmo]

Trump will do and say what he needs to do in order to serve a very restricted agenda, with the dominant item being his desire to be re-elected as he believes every day in office serves his brand.

I suspect his main motivation for re-election is to avoid indictment.

His brand is crap. A MAGA hat is practically a swastika these days (or at the very least, a Confederate flag).

[_honorentheos]

There is a deeper issue than if Trump is only furthering his own interests or that of the nation's. It is a question of whether or not the United States should or can view it's own interests as extending no further than our boundaries or if we have a need to participate in sustaining a certain world order. It's why I ask if Ajax wouldn't mind sharing his strongest case against Obama having had American interests at the heart as exemplified by the example he should share. It's a fundamental question at the heart of the Democrat primaries, too. We should be more interested in that question than sniping at Trump. Trump is a symptom.

[_canpakes]

There is a deeper issue than if Trump is only furthering his own interests or that of the nation's. It is a question of whether or not the United States should or can view it's own interests as extending no further than our boundaries or if we have a need to participate in sustaining a certain world order.

I see the latter as an extension, or ‘scaled up’ version, of the former.

At the macro (international) level, the most vocal wing of the Republican voting population is whipped up into frenzy over the idea of ‘America First’, consequences or realities be damned. All that matters is that their immediate needs of pride and tribal identity are met. This is a supersized version of what motivates many of these same voters at the micro (community) level, where ‘America First’ becomes ‘Me First’. It’s what drives them to be incensed by anything that smacks of ‘political correctness’, or refusing to bend to religious sensibilities other than their own, and in believing that their economic situation is driven by other folks both poorer and less white than themselves.

[_EAllusion]

The people who are deeply into “America First” political messaging are some of the most politically correct people you will ever encounter. They just don’t consider their taboos to be PC. But ask them about football players protesting racially biased police misconduct by kneeling during the national anthem and you’ll get an earful of political correctness.

I agree with those who diagnose this as a function of authoritarian-friendly personalities driven by deep cultural grievances. To an outsider, it looks like rank hypocrisy.

[_Some Schmo]

It’s what drives them to be incensed by anything that smacks of ‘political correctness’, or refusing to bend to religious sensibilities other than their own, and in believing that their economic situation is driven by other folks both poorer and less white than themselves.

It's the weirdest thing that people believe immigrants are responsible for their economic situation. It's like football players blaming the kicker for their issues with the team's owner.

[Guest]

There is a deeper issue than if Trump is only furthering his own interests or that of the nation's. It is a question of whether or not the United States should or can view it's own interests as extending no further than our boundaries or if we have a need to participate in sustaining a certain world order.

I see the latter as an extension, or ‘scaled up’ version, of the former.

At the macro (international) level, the most vocal wing of the Republican voting population is whipped up into frenzy over the idea of ‘America First’, consequences or realities be damned. All that matters is that their immediate needs of pride and tribal identity are met. This is a supersized version of what motivates many of these same voters at the micro (community) level, where ‘America First’ becomes ‘Me First’. It’s what drives them to be incensed by anything that smacks of ‘political correctness’, or refusing to bend to religious sensibilities other than their own, and in believing that their economic situation is driven by other folks both poorer and less white than themselves.

Isolationism isn't a conservative v. liberal issue. Bernie is an isolationist. Many people fighting to be the Democrat nominee see the US as having played too much outside of our sandbox over the last 70 years and are arguing for refocusing on us.

The original America First Committee from pre-WWII included John F. Kennedy and Gore Vidal as members. We aren't understanding the issues involved if we make it into a Trumo v. Democrats issue. Prior to Trump, this was almost certainly more of a libertarian and progressive position that third way Democrats appropriated. So, my question to Ajax is important. What is it that Obama did that was not taking US interests into account? Specific incident please.