Math is hard for at least three liberals
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
More than that, there wouldn't be the talked about national vent shortage if CPAP's counted. Musk's whole Twitter spat that started this was about a shortage of mechanical ventilators of the type that CPAPS are not. The entire argument is based on an equivocation even if you decide to call a CPAP a ventilator. It's like if there were a critical national shortage of parachutes, and after I downplayed it for a while I was was all like, "Pfft. I'll get you your parachutes."
Then, I announced I got the parachutes and received a ton of praise for my charity. Then journalists report that I actually bought some cheap bed sheets from a Wal*Mart warehouse and sent them over. I go on the attack against the lamestream media and offer proof I sent over tons of sheets, or bedchutes as I call them. DocCam gets angry and is all like, "You can make crude parachutes from these materials, brah. Not everyone is jumping out of planes. EA's cousin said on a fishing blog that what EA did was great and that guy has his pilot's license. You're a bunch of lying liars."
Then, I announced I got the parachutes and received a ton of praise for my charity. Then journalists report that I actually bought some cheap bed sheets from a Wal*Mart warehouse and sent them over. I go on the attack against the lamestream media and offer proof I sent over tons of sheets, or bedchutes as I call them. DocCam gets angry and is all like, "You can make crude parachutes from these materials, brah. Not everyone is jumping out of planes. EA's cousin said on a fishing blog that what EA did was great and that guy has his pilot's license. You're a bunch of lying liars."
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
Vintage, EA. I love how he creates this fantasy world argument, then goes about knocking it over.
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth CNN updated their coverage with a fairly investigated and vetted article here:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/tech/elo ... index.html
I’d like to think had they done that initially, their reputation might’ve not taken a hit. As far as RI’s point, I’ve made my points, so I don’t feel the need to re-hash them, but I’m willing to concede that intubation ventilators, 1,0000 of them, were not bought and distributed.
That said, Wiki:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVvnYaBXgAI ... ame=medium
Perhaps a Musk operative updated the wiki entry to make EA look bad...
- Doc
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth CNN updated their coverage with a fairly investigated and vetted article here:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/tech/elo ... index.html
I’d like to think had they done that initially, their reputation might’ve not taken a hit. As far as RI’s point, I’ve made my points, so I don’t feel the need to re-hash them, but I’m willing to concede that intubation ventilators, 1,0000 of them, were not bought and distributed.
That said, Wiki:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVvnYaBXgAI ... ame=medium
Perhaps a Musk operative updated the wiki entry to make EA look bad...
- Doc
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
The CNN article you linked, in defense of yourself, is stating what I just got done telling you. Almost point by point.
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
I posted the CNN article as a matter of integrity, not to bolster my point, which should’ve been obvious by my commentary. What you conveniently forget to mention is, I dunno, Musk’s response that he provided what ICUs requested, and now that CPAPs can, in fact, be referred to as ventilators, used as non-intubation ventilators, and some modded to be used as intubation ventilators in a desperate situation, which, if you bothered to do some cursory searches on Google and Twitter, you would’ve discovered and graciously conceded.
But, hey, I get it. That’s not how you roll. You feel a soul crushing existential crisis if you’re not the best Googler on the forum. I know, man. It hurts to not always be the rightest on every issue. We all have our cross to bear, and yours is heavy, indeed.
But, hey, I get it. That’s not how you roll. You feel a soul crushing existential crisis if you’re not the best Googler on the forum. I know, man. It hurts to not always be the rightest on every issue. We all have our cross to bear, and yours is heavy, indeed.
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
Oh for god sakes everywhere I look on this board lately there's a pissing contest of some kind.
YES, the PAPS are a type of ventilator. God, you people, I swear. :rolleyes:
YES, the PAPS are a type of ventilator. God, you people, I swear. :rolleyes:
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
[quote="Jersey Girl" post_id=1222014 time=1587177064 user_id=16]
Oh for god sakes everywhere I look on this board lately there's a pissing contest of some kind.
[size=150]YES[/size], the PAPS are a type of ventilator. God, you people, I swear. :rolleyes:
[/quote]
We’re just having discussions on a discussion board, Jersey Girl. Chillax.
- Doc
Oh for god sakes everywhere I look on this board lately there's a pissing contest of some kind.
[size=150]YES[/size], the PAPS are a type of ventilator. God, you people, I swear. :rolleyes:
[/quote]
We’re just having discussions on a discussion board, Jersey Girl. Chillax.
- Doc
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
The ICU ventilators, the PAPS, are types of positive pressure mechanical ventilators. The PAPS are non-invasive ventilators. They're ALL types of ventilators.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
Yes, your CPAP is a type of positive pressure mechanical ventilator that is non-invasive. The ICU vents are invasive positive pressure mechanical ventilators. When the EMT"s bag you, they're using a manual ventilator. Not that I've been bagged lately.Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:39 pm
I've used a CPAP for 15 or 20 years, and I've never heard it referred to as a ventilator, until Musk did it. Neither a CPAP nor a BIPAP take over the job of breathing. Ventilating a patient requires sticking a tube down the patient's windpipe and a trained technician to monitor the breathing and settings. I put my CPAP mask on every night by myself and fall asleep.

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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
When we are specifically talking about the national shortage of ventilators during a pandemic that strains the needed supply of them, we are talking about ventilators in the sense this wiki article is primarily about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilator
If you want to call CPAPs and BiPAPS ventilators, it's not jargon I'm used to, but feel free as it doesn't really matter. I don't care whether or not some people call it a vent in a certain context. What matters is that CPAPs and BiPAPs aren't ventilators of the type there is a critical national shortage of. A dot that isn't connecting here is that if CPAPS and BiPAPS were interchangeable with the vent shortage, then there would be no vent shortage. There isn't a critical shortage of sleep apnea machines.
The entire argument here is resting on an equivocation.
Something else I did professionally that strikes me is relevant is I worked with a pair of nurses on developing strategies to talk with intellectually disabled people about advanced directives so they could make choices regarding their medical care. I then went to their houses in meetings with a nurse (and other people) and helped them make informed advanced directive choices.
One of those choices is whether you consent to being put on a mechanical ventilator should the need arise. That's the language. "Mechanical ventilator." No one, absolutely no one, thinks this is referring to consent to go on a CPAP or BiPAP. The very idea is funny. Even if you call those devices vents, that's clearly not what is meant by use of the term. The vents being talked about are the kind that show up in advanced directives and refer to taking over a person's breathing using relatively sophisticated technology to maintain it. That's what was referred to on Musk's Twitter; that's what the government of California means; that's what journalism referring to vents not being sent means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilator
If you want to call CPAPs and BiPAPS ventilators, it's not jargon I'm used to, but feel free as it doesn't really matter. I don't care whether or not some people call it a vent in a certain context. What matters is that CPAPs and BiPAPs aren't ventilators of the type there is a critical national shortage of. A dot that isn't connecting here is that if CPAPS and BiPAPS were interchangeable with the vent shortage, then there would be no vent shortage. There isn't a critical shortage of sleep apnea machines.
The entire argument here is resting on an equivocation.
Something else I did professionally that strikes me is relevant is I worked with a pair of nurses on developing strategies to talk with intellectually disabled people about advanced directives so they could make choices regarding their medical care. I then went to their houses in meetings with a nurse (and other people) and helped them make informed advanced directive choices.
One of those choices is whether you consent to being put on a mechanical ventilator should the need arise. That's the language. "Mechanical ventilator." No one, absolutely no one, thinks this is referring to consent to go on a CPAP or BiPAP. The very idea is funny. Even if you call those devices vents, that's clearly not what is meant by use of the term. The vents being talked about are the kind that show up in advanced directives and refer to taking over a person's breathing using relatively sophisticated technology to maintain it. That's what was referred to on Musk's Twitter; that's what the government of California means; that's what journalism referring to vents not being sent means.
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Re: Math is hard for at least three liberals
It occurs to me that I have advanced directives and I'm a "no" on mechanical ventilation. (Like a lot of critical life-sustaining care, it's awful, guys.) However, with COVID, the odds of you going under and actually being brought back with not-too-bad harm relatively quickly aren't terrible. I just don't want to be in a medical coma on a ventilator for a longer stretch of time or as a critical treatment to keep me alive despite prior oxygen loss. That's bad news. I probably should look into what I'm doing here as a just in case.
That all said, because we need vents to save people's lives, that might be obscuring that a lot of people whose lives are being saved with vents are probably gonna have a hell of a time in recovery with enduring psychological damage. I'm sure someone's written about it, but I haven't seen that talked about in this context yet.
That all said, because we need vents to save people's lives, that might be obscuring that a lot of people whose lives are being saved with vents are probably gonna have a hell of a time in recovery with enduring psychological damage. I'm sure someone's written about it, but I haven't seen that talked about in this context yet.