Kaysville, UT homeowners show up in large numbers to oppose warming center

[I Have Questions]

...I see a common theme among critics as they look at the church and its members being addicted to riches and wealth. Some individuals that are members of the church may struggle mightily with riches in accordance to the scripture you've quoted. Humans are susceptible to that. But for critics, it's ALL ABOUT wealth...

Another sweeping stereotype about mentalgymnast's favorite group to hate!

...There are no lines of demarcation for the fact that wealth is/can be a means to an end of doing good in the world. Third world members of the church benefit from the wealth of first world members. When you think about it, that's a wonderful thing...

That's just laughable. People are repulsed by the obscene level of wealth hoarded by the LDS church, but mentalymnast wants others to focus on the teensy dribbles of money that are squeezed out under great protest. The LDS church 'donates' only because it got caught not donating, and it's trying to rehabilitate its image. It's not working, though. It's obvious that the emphasis is on donating as little as possible while overpublicizing every tiny event. It's just pharisees praying out open windows.

It’s been well publicised that the hoarded hundreds of millions of dollars in the Ensign Peak fund etc have never been used for anything charitable. In fact, they’ve only ever been used for anything charitable upmarket Shopping Mall, and to bail out a for-profit insurance company.its also noteworthy that the Church only increased its other humanitarian spending after the whistleblower made it known to how much the Church had secreted away.

[Gadianton]

I think Bill made a good point, people do what's good for them. For some reason, some people, like certain conservative political leaders in the US, just say 'f' the poor and who cares, they're out for themselves: eat, drink, and be merry. I get it. But others choose a more convoluted path. Instead of just being honest with themselves and everyone else, they create a complicated scheme whereby they shower the creator of the universe with monetary gifts vicariously by wealth transfers to the self-appointed emissaries, and in return, they are allowed not to feel guilty for the perils that befall anybody else. As MG pointed out, many members aren't rich, in fact, they're barely hanging on due to the amount they must pay the emissaries of the deity from every paycheck. But what they get out of that is psychological certainty that there is no more they need to do beyond that. The emissaries assure them that paying dues to their corporation is the best way to stop people from freezing to death in the long term. Of course, what's really happening is that the religion is a scam, and maximizing the number of people who will freeze to death.

It would make more sense for the members to either cut out the middle man and give their money to help freezing people directly, or at least to quit giving it away to self-appointed emissaries who don't need it and just build edifices to themselves. They might as well enjoy it, and enjoy the freedom of being honest about it, or help their kids with it to lower the risk of them freezing to death one day. But, to Bill's point, if a person's psychology does not allow them such luxuries, then the best they can do for themselves is participate in an obvious scam that professes to help people as its highest goal but really just enriches the already rich, while absolving the guilt-prone of culpability.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

There may be an important point being made here.

Regards,
MG

The thing is, Christian or not, what exactly does someone like Drumdude expect out of Christians? Are Christians obligated to go along with the degrading of their own neighborhoods? I never saw that anywhere in the Christians/Mormon scriptures. I'm not a Christian and no friend of the Mormon religion (I generally have no problem with Mormon people), but he's just being a doosh.

False premise and begging the question alert!

1) ^ assumes a warming center automatically “degrades” a neighborhood. The assumption is not settled fact. That’s what’s in dispute. Couldn’t the center have the opposite effect, ie, less deaths, fewer ER visits, less camping, etc?

2) It’s not a this or that situation ref. Christians accepting neighborhood degradation or they reject a warming center. Various communities and churches operate warming centers with rules, supervision, and coordination with local services to maintain safety and order.

3) Christian scripture ties moral responsibility to feeding, clothing, and sheltering people in need, & the Book of Mormon, If I recall correctly condemns societies that hardens their hearts against the poor out of fear, comfort, or stiff dickedness. None of that requires tolerating chaos. A good-faith effort to help the poor is fundamental to Christianity.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

The thing is, Christian or not, what exactly does someone like Drumdude expect out of Christians? Are Christians obligated to go along with the degrading of their own neighborhoods? I never saw that anywhere in the Christians/Mormon scriptures. I'm not a Christian and no friend of the Mormon religion (I generally have no problem with Mormon people), but he's just being a doosh.

False premise and begging the question alert!

1) ^ assumes a warming center automatically “degrades” a neighborhood. The assumption is not settled fact. That’s what’s in dispute. Couldn’t the center have the opposite effect, ie, less deaths, fewer ER visits, less camping, etc?

2) It’s not a this or that situation ref. Christians accepting neighborhood degradation or they reject a warming center. Various communities and churches operate warming centers with rules, supervision, and coordination with local services to maintain safety and order.

3) Christian scripture ties moral responsibility to feeding, clothing, and sheltering people in need, & the Book of Mormon, If I recall correctly condemns societies that hardens their hearts against the poor out of fear, comfort, or stiff dickedness. None of that requires tolerating chaos. A good-faith effort to help the poor is fundamental to Christianity.

Minutes from the Kaysville City Council Emergency Meeting
Date: December 22, 2025

Topic: Proposed Warming Center

Council Chair: Alright, let’s bring this meeting to order. We’re here to discuss the permit for the Kaysville Warming Center. MG, you have the floor first.

MG 2.0: (Leans into the microphone, softly whispers) There may be an important point being made here. (Sits back down and stares intensely at a glass of water).

Council Chair: ...Thank you, MG. Very cryptic and completely useless as always. Moving on. Mr. Bill4Long?

bill4long: Look, I’m not saying I hate the poor, okay? I’m just saying that once you provide blankets, hot cocoa to the homeless, my property value drops faster than a lead balloon. It’s a false premise to think I’m a Christian. I’m just a guy who likes his neighborhood non-degraded. Also, Drumdude over there? He thinks I'm a total doosh.

Drumdude: You’re assuming a warming center is a portal to chaos! Are you guys even slightly concerned about helping society's most vulnerable?

bill4long: I’m not a Mormon, Drumdude!

Drumdude: Does it even matter? Society (which includes everyone in this room) is better off helping each other. If we don't help these people, they'll literally freez on Bill's lawn. Isn't that a bigger degradation than a supervised building with security with strict rules and a chore chart?

bill4long: Rules? You think freezing homeless people seeking warmth will follow the rules? Next thing you know, there’s going to be a community garden with people sharing vegetables. It’s a slippery slope, I tell ya!

MG 2.0: (Leans back in) Regards. MG.

Council Chair: MG, please stop narrating your own exit and being a wiener.

Doctor CamNC4Me: I motion that we provide the soup, the blankets, and a dictionary so Bill can look up what "Begging the Question" actually means.

bill4long: I motion that Drumdude and Doctor CamNC4Me buy my house for three times its value since they are so holy.

MG 2.0: (Nods slowly and scratches his nose) I think a point is being made.

Hooch: Everyone in here is a progressive liberal Marxist!

[Limnor]

Actually, the church cares deeply about the poor, which is why it guards its billions so carefully—to avoid setting unrealistic expectations and preserve opportunities for the poor to raise themselves to a higher position.

If you think about it, the model fits the plan of salvation rather well. God has abundance, but growth comes through learning to endure. After all, salvation is about becoming like God, and nothing prepares one for godhood quite like learning to thrive while that abundance remains just out of reach.

[Whiskey]

False premise and begging the question alert!

1) ^ assumes a warming center automatically “degrades” a neighborhood. The assumption is not settled fact. That’s what’s in dispute. Couldn’t the center have the opposite effect, ie, less deaths, fewer ER visits, less camping, etc?

2) It’s not a this or that situation ref. Christians accepting neighborhood degradation or they reject a warming center. Various communities and churches operate warming centers with rules, supervision, and coordination with local services to maintain safety and order.

3) Christian scripture ties moral responsibility to feeding, clothing, and sheltering people in need, & the Book of Mormon, If I recall correctly condemns societies that hardens their hearts against the poor out of fear, comfort, or stiff dickedness. None of that requires tolerating chaos. A good-faith effort to help the poor is fundamental to Christianity.

Minutes from the Kaysville City Council Emergency Meeting
Date: December 22, 2025

Topic: Proposed Warming Center

Council Chair: Alright, let’s bring this meeting to order. We’re here to discuss the permit for the Kaysville Warming Center. MG, you have the floor first.

MG 2.0: (Leans into the microphone, softly whispers) There may be an important point being made here. (Sits back down and stares intensely at a glass of water).

Council Chair: ...Thank you, MG. Very cryptic and completely useless as always. Moving on. Mr. Bill4Long?

bill4long: Look, I’m not saying I hate the poor, okay? I’m just saying that once you provide blankets, hot cocoa to the homeless, my property value drops faster than a lead balloon. It’s a false premise to think I’m a Christian. I’m just a guy who likes his neighborhood non-degraded. Also, Drumdude over there? He thinks I'm a total doosh.

Drumdude: You’re assuming a warming center is a portal to chaos! Are you guys even slightly concerned about helping society's most vulnerable?

bill4long: I’m not a Mormon, Drumdude!

Drumdude: Does it even matter? Society (which includes everyone in this room) is better off helping each other. If we don't help these people, they'll literally freez on Bill's lawn. Isn't that a bigger degradation than a supervised building with security with strict rules and a chore chart?

bill4long: Rules? You think freezing homeless people seeking warmth will follow the rules? Next thing you know, there’s going to be a community garden with people sharing vegetables. It’s a slippery slope, I tell ya!

MG 2.0: (Leans back in) Regards. MG.

Council Chair: MG, please stop narrating your own exit and being a wiener.

Doctor CamNC4Me: I motion that we provide the soup, the blankets, and a dictionary so Bill can look up what "Begging the Question" actually means.

bill4long: I motion that Drumdude and Doctor CamNC4Me buy my house for three times its value since they are so holy.

MG 2.0: (Nods slowly and scratches his nose) I think a point is being made.

Hooch: Everyone in here is a progressive liberal Marxist!

Have you ever told the truth, Wanger? That is a real question. I am not convinced you ever have.

I think that everyone on this forum agrees that Jesus does not want crackheads and crackbabies in his own house and Jesus does not want crackheads and crackbabies in our houses.

I think most on this forum agree that Jesus wants Kaysville to have a roof for homeless people, but not Jesus's roof. He wants it to be someone else's roof. We agree on that mostly.

If my understanding is incorrect, please let me know.

[MG 2.0]

I think Bill made a good point, people do what's good for them. For some reason, some people, like certain conservative political leaders in the US, just say 'f' the poor and who cares, they're out for themselves: eat, drink, and be merry. I get it. But others choose a more convoluted path. Instead of just being honest with themselves and everyone else, they create a complicated scheme whereby they shower the creator of the universe with monetary gifts vicariously by wealth transfers to the self-appointed emissaries, and in return, they are allowed not to feel guilty for the perils that befall anybody else. As MG pointed out, many members aren't rich, in fact, they're barely hanging on due to the amount they must pay the emissaries of the deity from every paycheck. But what they get out of that is psychological certainty that there is no more they need to do beyond that. The emissaries assure them that paying dues to their corporation is the best way to stop people from freezing to death in the long term. Of course, what's really happening is that the religion is a scam, and maximizing the number of people who will freeze to death.

It would make more sense for the members to either cut out the middle man and give their money to help freezing people directly, or at least to quit giving it away to self-appointed emissaries who don't need it and just build edifices to themselves. They might as well enjoy it, and enjoy the freedom of being honest about it, or help their kids with it to lower the risk of them freezing to death one day. But, to Bill's point, if a person's psychology does not allow them such luxuries, then the best they can do for themselves is participate in an obvious scam that professes to help people as its highest goal but really just enriches the already rich, while absolving the guilt-prone of culpability.

Wow. Mental gymnastics anyone? Critics talk about members being “fully invested” to the point that no matter what is said or done they will be in the pew on Sundays. That’s an interesting conversation that could be had. But gee whiz, the lengths that agnostics/atheists will go to in order to ‘armchair quarterback’ their views down the field in order to reach the end zone is almost laughable.

Fully invested seems to go both ways.

I would imagine someone will come back to the 40 yard and try for a field goal. It wouldn’t be the first time.

Regards,
MG

[Whiskey]

I think Bill made a good point, people do what's good for them. For some reason, some people, like certain conservative political leaders in the US, just say 'f' the poor and who cares, they're out for themselves: eat, drink, and be merry. I get it. But others choose a more convoluted path. Instead of just being honest with themselves and everyone else, they create a complicated scheme whereby they shower the creator of the universe with monetary gifts vicariously by wealth transfers to the self-appointed emissaries, and in return, they are allowed not to feel guilty for the perils that befall anybody else. As MG pointed out, many members aren't rich, in fact, they're barely hanging on due to the amount they must pay the emissaries of the deity from every paycheck. But what they get out of that is psychological certainty that there is no more they need to do beyond that. The emissaries assure them that paying dues to their corporation is the best way to stop people from freezing to death in the long term. Of course, what's really happening is that the religion is a scam, and maximizing the number of people who will freeze to death.

It would make more sense for the members to either cut out the middle man and give their money to help freezing people directly, or at least to quit giving it away to self-appointed emissaries who don't need it and just build edifices to themselves. They might as well enjoy it, and enjoy the freedom of being honest about it, or help their kids with it to lower the risk of them freezing to death one day. But, to Bill's point, if a person's psychology does not allow them such luxuries, then the best they can do for themselves is participate in an obvious scam that professes to help people as its highest goal but really just enriches the already rich, while absolving the guilt-prone of culpability.

Wow. Mental gymnastics anyone? Critics talk about members being “fully invested” to the point that no matter what is said or done they will be in the pew on Sundays. That’s an interesting conversation that could be had. But gee whiz, the lengths that agnostics/atheists will go to in order to ‘armchair quarterback’ their views down the field in order to reach the end zone is almost laughable.

Fully invested seems to go both ways.

I would imagine someone will come back to the 40 yard and try for a field goal. It wouldn’t be the first time.

Regards,
MG

Yeah. This is classic Gadspeak. If a round is circle and rectangle square and you circle the round because you believe that the round rounds better than the circle circles then obviously you are in a cult.

[Whiskey]

Exactly on topic. Seriously, exactly on topic.

Where do we think the people stand on Jesus's stand regarding docking tails on dogs? Seems Jesus is against tail docking and good people agree with Jesus on that. Though, I don't have valid evidence to support that. I think bulldogs and Rottweilers and Dobermans and dogs like that should have docked tails and the Dobermans should have cropped ears. I am willing to disagree with Jesus and go straight to hell for this one. Straight to hell.

[canpakes]

Hooch: Everyone in here is a progressive liberal Marxist!

Have you ever told the truth, Wanger? That is a real question. I am not convinced you ever have.

He must be, or that proxy Hound account must have been lying about everyone here.
: D