How often "plates" are discussed here.

[MG 2.0]

Any of us can promise all kinds of benefits. It does not mean we can deliver.

MG claims that "Only God can. And not just ANY god...". Presumably he is referring to Mormon god. I'd like to see him justify that claim.

Kishkumen's statement is true in the sense that no human can provide the all the benefits to all promises made. It is true, that humans cannot always deliver. God, on the other hand, can deliver. He is omniscient and omnipotent. We are not. Therefore, only God can reliably be trusted to deliver on His promises. As members of the church we believe that the covenants made with God result in promises made, promises kept. And the conditions under which blessings are predicated.

I'm referring to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As members of the church we believe it is that same God that speaks to prophets in the Book of Mormon. The promises of spiritual knowledge, divine help, and salvation are tied to that specific deity.

The Creator of Heaven and Earth. The Big Guy (His Son, anyway)...but He's a God too.

This is a faith, an act of belief. That faith and belief cannot be "justified" and/or proved to a non-believer. We will ultimately reach an impasse.

Regards,
MG

[bill4long]

The Book of Mormon makes it rather clear that we should not trust in the "arm of the flesh".

Regards,
MG

Can you explain what the phrase “arm of the flesh” means, specifically?

Apparently, according to the Brighamite Overlords it doesn't mean socking away 250 billion and filing false SEC documents.

[Shulem]

The Book of Mormon makes it rather clear that we should not trust in the "arm of the flesh".

Regards,
MG

Can you explain what the phrase “arm of the flesh” means, specifically?

MG misquoted. It says:

O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will  trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

Cursed is he that putteth his  trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the  precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Or in other words, God is a Spirit/spirit.

[malkie]

stuff

I think it would be fairer for MG to say that Mormon god is claimed to be "omniscient and omnipotent", and can be trusted to deliver on His promises. Evidence is lacking, and faith is required to the extent that it all falls apart without faith. Even the claim that Mormon god can be trusted is pie in the sky. Even assuming that he exists, we have literally no idea about whether he can be trusted. Even if he exists, his supposedly being omniscient and omnipotent gives us no reason to believe that he can be trusted - in spite of what MG implies, trustworthiness may be completely unrelated to omniscience and omnipotence, never mind the suggestion that the former is a result of the latter.

As far as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob goes, I expect that most of the members of the Abrahamic religions would not accept the small minority claim that their god is the same god that Mormons believe speaks to prophets in the Book of Mormon.

Although we have once again reached an impasse, I think that it is sometimes worthwhile to point out that the faith expressed by Mormons can, in cases like this, be shown to be inconsistent almost to the point of meaninglessness.

[I Have Questions]

Although we have once again reached an impasse, I think that it is sometimes worthwhile to point out that the faith expressed by Mormons can, in cases like this, be shown to be inconsistent almost to the point of meaninglessness.

The only reason an impasse is reached is because MG is unwilling or unable to explain what he means, and/or cannot support what he asserts. Take his use of “arm of the flesh”. I don’t think he knows what it is he’s saying, and I don’t think he will try and explain what it was he thought he was saying because there is no substance or any really thought that’s gone into posting those words on this board. It’s just a phrase he thought sounded deep. He doesn’t realise the implications of the phrase. So It’s an impasse of MG’s own making.

[Gadianton]

I'm referring to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As members of the church we believe it is that same God that speaks to prophets in the Book of Mormon. The promises of spiritual knowledge, divine help, and salvation are tied to that specific deity.

The Creator of Heaven and Earth. The Big Guy (His Son, anyway)...but He's a God too

MG making it up as he goes along. After a long life in the church, he still doesn't know who he worships. Perhaps his tombstone will be inscribed with a tribute to "the unknown god" such as it was with the Athenians? A worshiper of nothing?

Are the blessings tied to that specific deity or his son? Either or, or one or either, all of the above yet none? It's a big confused mess called "stuff" as Malkie suggests, but MG knows all about it, or rather, nothing about it as he likes to say, it's so simple that a primary child understands it.

[MG 2.0]

It is very difficult to carry on a conversation with folks that have closed minds and are apparently unwilling and/or unable to look at things from more than one perspective. Arm of the flesh (you don't know what it means!!), "stuff" (ignoring what was actually said), "he's contradicting himself!!"(without actually looking for meaning/understanding), etc.

Circles/wheels of doubt going round and round. Unable to think outside of a tiny box of fundamentalism, restricted by a worldview that doesn't allow for expansiveness and curiosity.

Died in the wool haters and doubters.

It's almost fruitless...and uninteresting...trying to carry on a conversation with nitpickers focused only on scoring points against Mormonism.

Regards,
MG

P.S. "Making stuff up". Sheesh.

[I Have Questions]

The Book of Mormon makes it rather clear that we should not trust in the "arm of the flesh".

Regards,
MG

Can you explain what the phrase “arm of the flesh” means, specifically?

Bump. Thanks, in anticipation.

[Limnor]

It is very difficult to carry on a conversation with folks that have closed minds and are apparently unwilling and/or unable to look at things from more than one perspective. Arm of the flesh (you don't know what it means!!), "stuff" (ignoring what was actually said), "he's contradicting himself!!"(without actually looking for meaning/understanding), etc.

Circles/wheels of doubt going round and round. Unable to think outside of a tiny box of fundamentalism, restricted by a worldview that doesn't allow for expansiveness and curiosity.

Died in the wool haters and doubters.

It's almost fruitless...and uninteresting...trying to carry on a conversation with nitpickers focused only on scoring points against Mormonism.

Regards,
MG

P.S. "Making stuff up". Sheesh.

The question about “arm of the flesh” hasn’t been addressed yet. If that’s one of the misunderstandings, maybe you could clarify?

[MG 2.0]

Any of us can promise all kinds of benefits. It does not mean we can deliver.

That is true. Only God can. And not just ANY god...

That's where things get rather messy, right?

The Book of Mormon makes it rather clear that we should not trust in the "arm of the flesh".

Regards,
MG

I'd be interested in hearing what others think I mean by "arm of the flesh". Also, why the repeated asking?

I'd be happy to come back later and further elucidate as to what I was/am referring to...but first...what are YOUR thoughts?

What is "arm of the flesh" and why did I use that phrase? What do YOU think it means and how it might apply to what was being said/talked about?

Back later to see if there is/are any original thoughts.

Thanks.

Regards,
MG