Out of curiosity, Marcus, would you have called the police? I have to admit I might have. If I had no idea who did it, I might call the police.
When I was much younger and living by myself, I came home one evening after a day teaching in the city, and my door was standing open. I called my local police and they came over immediately and an officer walked through the house for me. No one was inside so I apologized but they stopped me and said I had done the right thing.
Another time, I came downstairs to find a person wearing the work vest of our local utilities, with an official-looking ID around his neck, inside my living room. He startled me and I yelled 'get out of my house,' but he held up his ID and said 'I'm an employee! Sorry for entering, but since I'm here can I check your meters?' The police in my town had sent around a notice about people scamming homeowners with utilities id's, so I just kept yelling 'get out of my house' and he eventually left. I was extremely distressed by that experience. That time I called the police and also made a report to our local utilities.
Another time, I left my car/house keys in my door as I was bringing in stuff. My neighbor took the keys out of my door, then sat on his porch and watched my house until I came out. He came over to give me my keys, and I was very appreciative of his help. He did NOT enter my house. He said he didn't mind waiting for me a bit, but that he would have dropped my keys off at the police station and explained the situation if I hadn't come back out before he left. He didn't have my phone number at the time and I wasn't answering the bell, and he didn't want to leave a note because he thought that wasn't safe and might make me a target.
Long story short, yes, I probably would have called the police.
That's a good question, Rev.
And a good answer, Marcus. I'm glad that the police were understanding on that first occasion. There can be a terrible inclination for us to think that there's nothing to worry about, or we can handle whatever happens, etc. I'm pretty sure that the police would rather be called out 1000 times and find nothing wrong on 999 of these occasions just to avoid the tragedy that could have occurred without them on the last one.
Rev, if you were to role-play this with your daughter, what would you expect her to do, and what do you hope she would do? If there's a difference in these two answers, would you try to bridge the gap?
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details. Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
Incidentally, I find it ironic that you state a Mormon woman would feel 'mission leadership' are the protectors they need. Out in the real world, women who feel unsafe in this manner call the police.
Clearly you did not serve a mission. All the sisters I served around would call the mission president or district leader first. I was in a shared apartment and the bike elders got a bipolar stalker who would come to our first floor apartment and when we wouldn’t answer the door would happily walk around to our patio and look in the through the glass if the blinds were not shut. Even these elders called the mission president before calling the police to get a restraining order. The sisters in the district thought it was scary and what they would have done if not in immediate danger. They also had the “pleasure” of a particularly prank master just before I was there and from the first time assumed elders first. This leadership reliance still seems evident with all my nieces who have been on missions in the last 6 years.
Incidentally, I find it ironic that you state a Mormon woman would feel 'mission leadership' are the protectors they need. Out in the real world, women who feel unsafe in this manner call the police.
Clearly you did not serve a mission. All the sisters I served around would call the mission president or district leader first. I was in a shared apartment and the bike elders got a bipolar stalker who would come to our first floor apartment and when we wouldn’t answer the door would happily walk around to our patio and look in the through the glass if the blinds were not shut. Even these elders called the mission president before calling the police to get a restraining order. The sisters in the district thought it was scary and what they would have done if not in immediate danger. They also had the “pleasure” of a particularly prank master just before I was there and from the first time assumed elders first. This leadership reliance still seems evident with all my nieces who have been on missions in the last 6 years.
Don’t get me wrong I wish all missionaries would call the cops first, but the church builds in this psychological dependency on the mission leadership to check in with them before the police. I wish more missionaries owned that they are adults and not children that so many treat them as. My nephew was pigeonholed into one area cause he knows French and after nine months the MP finally relented and sent him to another area for one transfer and then right back to this area he had a hard time being stuck in. The MP must have said this area or no area and so my nephew came home early instead of suffering mentally.
It is anecdotal, but I surveyed my three nieces and my nephew's wife who all have served in the last six years. "What would you feel and do if you came home, door is locked, and a Halloween decoration was inside your living room that had been on your doorstep?" All would have called the district leader or mission president. Two were certain it would have been elders playing a prank. I asked if they wouldn't be worried and call the cops, they said only if their mission president told them to. One said she'd be scared, called the MP and gotten permission to stay at another sisters' apartment that night or at the mission home until the locks could be changed.
I then told them an exmo neighbor had played a prank seeing their wide open door, and his girlfriend also a neighbor came over and explained the door being open the next morning, they had checked things out, and he'd decided to pull a prank. One gave an eye roll emoji to the prank, but they all said in that context they'd be glad the neighbors checked it out, that the prank was not what they were thinking about, but what if they and/or their companion had been raped or assaulted and were tied up, that the assailant(s) could have stolen the car, and glad the door wasn't just shut. Again I tried to steel man against RFM, though perhaps I didn't do a good job.
My nieces know my position on the church and there is no way they would not let their biases of trying to protect the church's image would not play a factor in how they answered.
It is anecdotal, but I surveyed my three nieces and my nephew's wife who all have served in the last six years. "What would you feel and do if you came home, door is locked, and a Halloween decoration was inside your living room that had been on your doorstep?" All would have called the district leader or mission president. Two were certain it would have been elders playing a prank. I asked if they wouldn't be worried and call the cops, they said only if their mission president told them to. One said she'd be scared, called the MP and gotten permission to stay at another sisters' apartment that night or at the mission home until the locks could be changed.
I then told them an exmo neighbor had played a prank seeing their wide open door, and his girlfriend also a neighbor came over and explained the door being open the next morning, they had checked things out, and he'd decided to pull a prank. One gave an eye roll emoji to the prank, but they all said in that context they'd be glad the neighbors checked it out, that the prank was not what they were thinking about, but what if they and/or their companion had been raped or assaulted and were tied up, that the assailant(s) could have stolen the car, and glad the door wasn't just shut. Again I tried to steel man against RFM, though perhaps I didn't do a good job.
My nieces know my position on the church and there is no way they would not let their biases of trying to protect the church's image would not play a factor in how they answered.
Oh dear god. I bolded the part that, even decades after leaving the lds church, still just sickens me.
This is the saddest thing I have read in a long time. Again, QED.
Last edited by Marcus on Mon Apr 20, 2026 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
What was the context for RFM deciding to post about his prank publicly online? For the laughs? For attention?
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
When I was much younger and living by myself, I came home one evening after a day teaching in the city, and my door was standing open. I called my local police and they came over immediately and an officer walked through the house for me. No one was inside so I apologized but they stopped me and said I had done the right thing.
Another time, I came downstairs to find a person wearing the work vest of our local utilities, with an official-looking ID around his neck, inside my living room. He startled me and I yelled 'get out of my house,' but he held up his ID and said 'I'm an employee! Sorry for entering, but since I'm here can I check your meters?' The police in my town had sent around a notice about people scamming homeowners with utilities id's, so I just kept yelling 'get out of my house' and he eventually left. I was extremely distressed by that experience. That time I called the police and also made a report to our local utilities.
Another time, I left my car/house keys in my door as I was bringing in stuff. My neighbor took the keys out of my door, then sat on his porch and watched my house until I came out. He came over to give me my keys, and I was very appreciative of his help. He did NOT enter my house. He said he didn't mind waiting for me a bit, but that he would have dropped my keys off at the police station and explained the situation if I hadn't come back out before he left. He didn't have my phone number at the time and I wasn't answering the bell, and he didn't want to leave a note because he thought that wasn't safe and might make me a target.
Long story short, yes, I probably would have called the police.
Thank you for sharing that, Marcus. I once saw evidence of what looked like an attempt to break into my house through one of my windows long after the damage was done, and I called the police. I had not remembered that until I reflected on this incident, so I had to admit that out of an abundance of caution I had called the police in a much less worrisome situation. So, I probably would have done so here, too.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
Rev, if you were to role-play this with your daughter, what would you expect her to do, and what do you hope she would do? If there's a difference in these two answers, would you try to bridge the gap?
Good questions, malkie. I regularly tell her to avoid risks. I hope that she would call the police, and I would advise her to do so. My daughter is 20 years old and lives in on-campus student housing.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
