AP Report on last night's Prop 8 fireside ....

[_harmony]

As to those who say that homosexuality is not a sin, I fully and completely understand why you think Prop 8 is foolish.

What, exactly, is sinful about homosexuality? I mean, I thought the sin was fornication (sex without marriage), the same as for heterosexuals who have sex without marriage. But homosexuals who hold hands in church meetings, who kiss each other, who cuddle... what sin are they committing? There is no fornication there.

[_Jersey Girl]

Paul's teachings against homosexuality are beyond real debate. I think it beneath me or anybody else who understands Biblical history to even attempt a debate.

The Church fathers for three hundred years had no problem understanding that Paul was condemning homosexual conduct. I would be citing repeatedly from them.

For instance:

"should be cut off" -- Clement (A.D. 96; ANF 1.34)

"polluted" -- Aristides (125, 9.269)

"monstrous impurity" -- Aristides (125, 9.279)

"abomination, outraging" -- Athenagoras (175, 2.143)

"contrary to nature" "O miserable spectacle! Horrible conduct"(Clement of Alexandria (195, 2.276)

I could go on but the dates are later. These people really believed it was an abomination. These are pretty strong authorities.

I've had discussions with Chris Smith about these passages and Paul's. He just says they are all wrong. I trust in my Bible on this point.

I notice that only two people made any attempt to answer my question as to whether homosexuality was a sin, and one said she didn't know and the other said "no." I will presume that the rest of you lack the courage to state your convictions.

As to those who say that homosexuality is not a sin, I fully and completely understand why you think Prop 8 is foolish.

What I underlined. Crock, I asked you to post the writings of Paul that you think prohibit homosexuality. I likewise asked you to address the cultural practices that were in place at the time the applicable scripts were delivered.

Do not presume to tell me that I lack the courge to do any such thing, when you've chosen to avoid discussion of the very scripts you feel preclude homosexual activity and for which you use in the dismissive statement of this post I'm replying to, as follows:

Paul's teachings against homosexuality are beyond real debate. I think it beneath me or anybody else who understands Biblical history to even attempt a debate.

That, sir, is a dismissive cop out evasion of discussion.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Bob,

I notice that only two people made any attempt to answer my question as to whether homosexuality was a sin, and one said she didn't know and the other said "no." I will presume that the rest of you lack the courage to state your convictions.

For the record, I don't think homosexuality is a "sin" *... In other words, I don't think it is unhealthy, hurtful, cruel, damaging to society or community, or thwarting enlightenment or evolving consciousness. ;-)

~td~



*I don't really use this word because it sounds too much like something associated with Satan who I think is a mythical figure. But I don't want to get caught up wth definitions... sigh. ;-)

[_collegeterrace]

As to those who say that homosexuality is not a sin, I fully and completely understand why you think Prop 8 is foolish.

What, exactly, is sinful about homosexuality? I mean, I thought the sin was fornication (sex without marriage), the same as for heterosexuals who have sex without marriage. But homosexuals who hold hands in church meetings, who kiss each other, who cuddle... what sin are they committing? There is no fornication there.

Interesting thoughts harmony...

For Crocket, what act makes a person homosexual?

Man?

Woman?

[_Sethbag]

Paul's teachings against homosexuality are beyond real debate. I think it beneath me or anybody else who understands Biblical history to even attempt a debate.

Why are Paul's writings to be believed anymore than, say, the sayings of Brigham Young? Was not Brigham Young a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and in fact, more than Paul, the Prophet of God on Earth during his time? Paul was more like a Parley P. Pratt of his day, or, wait for it, a Bruce R. McConkie.

So, what makes Paul's writings ironclad, authentic, and beyond debate, but we constantly see TBMs dismissing the things Brigham Young said as his mere personal opinions, and even more so, the writings of someone like Pratt or McConkie?

If you treated Brigham Young as being as "real" of a Prophet as Paul, you'd believe that miscegenation warranted immediate death on the spot, that Adam really is our God, and that some sins (apparently like adultery, or apostasy) actually required that a person be slaughtered by the Priesthood in order for that person to be forgivable by God.

Bob, please explain why anything Paul said or thought has to be accepted as-is with no debate, no possibility that Paul was just a bigot and expressing his opinions, influenced by attitudes of others around him during a particular time, etc. when you're not willing to regard the statements and teachings of your own Prophets, Seers, and Revelators this same way.

[_Gazelam]

Rollo,

but I do not view God as homophobic

To this day you can go to where the cities of Sodom and Gommorah once stood, and pick up ash and brimstone from off the ground. Holding a match to a piece it becomes a black oozing mass of purple flame. This same sulpher rained down upon those cities reducing them to ash, and the inhabitants there to piles of salt. The gazelles in the region like to dig this salt up out of the ash and use it as a nutritional supplement.

God is not homophobic. He fears no man.

But he does see the sinful carnal nature of the homosexual as being worthy of destruction by fire, to the point that all traces of their culture are wiped from the face of the earth.

[_Brackite]

Hello all Here,

The States should have the right to decide if they want to legally allow gay marriages or not, just like everyone one each individual of the States have the right to decide to legally allow first Cousin Marriages or not.


Here is the Tenth Amendment, to the United States Constitution:

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

(http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution ... amendmentx)



For An Example and For Instance; The States of Alaska, Alabama, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, and Vermont legally allow first Cousin Marriages.

Another Example and For Instance; The States of Arkansas, Delaware, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, West Virginia, and Wyoming do Not legally allow first Cousin Marriages.

Please Check Out and See:


State Laws Regarding Marriages Between First Cousins:

Cousin-Couples:

Cousin Marriages: