Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

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_why me
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _why me »

TAK wrote:
She portrayed DOM in a much better light than he deserved..

Do you deny that there was at one time a strong anti – catholic sentiment in the LDS church?

I would not call it strongely anticatholic. But they did not look too kindly on the catholic church. It was not the KKK.

However, I remember in Institute class (1975) a discussion about the great abominable church. Some said it was the catholic church, others claimed it was communism. Many favored the catholic church because of Bruce R. His book was a reference point for many LDS.

I also remember that Martin Luther was recognized as a reformer and a prelude to Joseph Smith and the restoration.

But strongely anticatholic? No.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Nightingale
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _Nightingale »

why me wrote: If the article was antimormon with a disparaging quotation by David O. McKay, it should not be surprising that it is being clicked on from around Utah and other parts east, west, north and south. Plus, it is on this site, plus MAD and I would suppose that a couple of other Mormon/antimormon sites as well.


Obviously LDS in Utah would be interested in something controversial that pertains to their faith and in the wider world, with at least EV believers, the cross is always a subject of interest, being such a strong symbol for them. Add Mormonism into the discussion and you have a topic of great interest. To me, that explains its potential for popularity.

I don't think it's a case of being anti or of quotes being deliberately included to inflame. I could be wrong. I don't do mind reading. But sometimes it seems that if you're too close or emotionally involved you tend to read into things something which may not be there. I would be surprised if Mike wrote his thesis to deliberately fan the flames against Mormonism. But predictably, some LDS may see that there. I don't know Mike or his background but generally at the thesis stage you'd be more focused on making a contribution than on waging a personal vendetta, you'd think. To me it makes more sense that there is at least some degree of objectivity there. If it were otherwise, would advisors accept that? Would it get published? I'm thinking perhaps not.

It could be more worthwhile to focus on what the church leaders have stated and how that and the culture have affected people's beliefs and try to understand it in the early days and its significance for today's LDS rather than always turning every topic and discussion against any non-LDS who has a comment or observation about Mormon beliefs. It's amazing to me the relatively if not wholly benign comments that some LDS see as filth-spewing. There is a wide divide indeed between the different perceptions of the same thing. (The last is a general comment and not specifically to whyme about this one issue). But I see it too with reference to the issue of baptism for the dead. Any question, no matter how benign, and some LDS see attack with evil intent. That is a subject worthy of a thesis all on its own.

Re Mike's thesis, I don't see that he deliberately chose the most inflammatory quotes but rather that some church leaders do insist on making inflammatory comments. :lol:
_why me
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _why me »

TAK wrote:Mike

Can't wait to see how FARMS reacts ..

FARMS will destroy this thesis if they deem it worthy enough to do so. Since it is just a master's thesis they may chose to ignore it.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Mike Reed
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _Mike Reed »

TAK wrote:Mike

You have me quoted ..
TAK wrote:
Thus, the reporter chose to leave out the drunken quotation. That's my guess.


I did not say that...

oops. I'll fix the quote. Thanks.

You have touched on an interesting topic.. Can't wait to see how FARMS reacts ..


Hopefully they find my thesis helpful in explaining the LDS cross aversion. I am sure that there is material that both apologist and critic can use. I didn't write the thesis to polarize the issue, though. I was actually hoping my thesis would help both sides to finally see eye to eye.
_Mike Reed
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _Mike Reed »

why me wrote:
TAK wrote:Mike

Can't wait to see how FARMS reacts ..

FARMS will destroy this thesis if they deem it worthy enough to do so. Since it is just a master's thesis they may chose to ignore it.


You haven't even read my thesis, silly.
_TAK
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _TAK »

Mike Reed wrote:
TAK wrote:Mike

You have me quoted ..
TAK wrote:
Thus, the reporter chose to leave out the drunken quotation. That's my guess.


I did not say that...

oops. I'll fix the quote. Thanks.

You have touched on an interesting topic.. Can't wait to see how FARMS reacts ..


Hopefully they find my thesis helpful in explaining the LDS cross aversion. I am sure that there is material that both apologist and critic can use. I didn't write the thesis to polarize the issue, though. I was actually hoping my thesis would help both sides to finally see eye to eye.


Thanks, Of course you know they will attack anything that puts the Church in poor light. I have been watching the comments on MAD and I don’t think they know how to approach it. I am none the less sure the Mo’s don’t like it.

In some ways I see this evolution much like the position once held on blacks.. in the end nobody really knew why blacks were banned - just that is the way it evolved.

Its not often a new topic gets floated for discussion,.. its usually the same BS over and over..
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_Nightingale
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _Nightingale »

why me wrote:
TAK wrote:
She portrayed DOM in a much better light than he deserved..

Do you deny that there was at one time a strong anti – catholic sentiment in the LDS church?

I would not call it strongely anticatholic. But they did not look too kindly on the catholic church. It was not the KKK.

However, I remember in Institute class (1975) a discussion about the great abominable church. Some said it was the catholic church, others claimed it was communism. Many favored the catholic church because of Bruce R. His book was a reference point for many LDS.

I also remember that Martin Luther was recognized as a reformer and a prelude to Joseph Smith and the restoration.

But strongely anticatholic? No.



There is some information and discussion on this in a post elsewhere by "Deconstructor" who outlined quotes by church leaders and from Mormon scriptures that showed Mormon attitudes toward Catholicism. I would call some of what I've read strongly anti. There are other more recent quotes too. No time right now to chase them up, sorry.

WARNING to LDS readers: One post on the thread linked below contains temple content. The subject line will alert you though so you can skip over it if needs must. That is not the purpose or focus of the thread to which I'm linking, here:

http://www.exmormon.org/Mormon/mormon121.htm
_TAK
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _TAK »

why me wrote:

But strongely anticatholic? No.


DOM calls it a Godless Farce and you don’t think that is strongly anti-catholic? What are you smoking Postum?
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_Seven
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _Seven »

"why me"

I would have to say harmony that it is not a bad thing that the LDS church has put the cross to the sidelines. We need to understand something about the LDS faith. It does not have at its center the cult of Jesus as one may find in other christian churches. For the LDS, heavenly father is the center of the faith. It is to him that the LDS pray to in the name of his son, Jesus Christ. Other christian groupings put the cross at the center of their faith to the exclusion of heavenly father. In some cases, Jesus becomes a cult-like figure.


LOL :lol:

:eek: Don't you belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? One of the main problems I had in developing a relationship and strong foundation with Christ was the sole focus on worshiping the Father (as a separate God). Your attitude above was how I was taught growing up LDS. Jesus is like "the parsley on the plate" in Mormonism and I had a disjointed relationship with Him.

Can you please explain why it's wrong to worship Jesus Christ, our Savior and Redeemer? Your disparaging remarks about how Christians worship Him and the cross, make no sense to me as a believer in the atonement. Your beliefs conflict with scriptures. (including the Book of Mormon)
"Happiness is the object and design of our existence...
That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another." Joseph Smith
_Seven
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Re: Salt Lake Tribune story on my thesis

Post by _Seven »

Congrats Mike Reed! :smile:
I loved the article.

When I was around age 7 or 8 my school had a special boutique type deal where we could buy our mothers a special gift. I had saved my money and found this beautiful cross necklace. When I brought it home I was so excited for my LDS mother to open it.

Her reaction was so unexpected. She freaked out and scolded me for bringing that into our home. I obviously had no idea that the cross was forbidden in our faith at the time. To have my special gift chosen with love & rejected by my Mom like that.........well it really stung and I'll never forget the awful feeling I had that day.

I've decided to allow my children cross jewelry if it's worn respectfully. Now I have some LDS history to fall back on if anyone gives me grief over it! Thanks Mike. :)
"Happiness is the object and design of our existence...
That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another." Joseph Smith
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