A formal apology...

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_Mary
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Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Mary »

Chris, I think if you want to keep active members on board you need to change that part about modern evidence on the Book of Abraham. Just out of respect. There are various theories around why the passages might still be inspired, and there could be some argument that that inspiration was muddied by Joseph Smith's own bias and prejudices.. and his own interpretation of Genesis passages...


I've sent this suggestion to Chris.

He will be changing all reference to negroes.

BC, just so you know, this (me) inactive apostate, has had 2 invitations to church functions this week, and you know what, I asked my family if they would like to go. I have found LDS members to be some of the nicest, kindest, most christian people I know, and I have absolutely no desire to hurt any of them. Personally, I think that not only Mormonism but most religion in general is based on myth and story, filtered through the minds of imperfect and fallible human beings, usually men.

In spite of that, can humans take something imperfect (and I include in that the stories of the New Testament, which may need revising if the Talpiot Tomb really did contain Jesus of Nazareth, his wife and Child) and make it into something good, and uplifting and inspirational? Does God, if he/she/it exists, help and inspire all people of all races and all religious and non-religious persuasions both in their intellectual, spiritual, social and physical pursuits? You bet I believe it.

And you won't find me criticizing LDS or anyone else for trying to be good, honest, truthful, kind, better people.

If I were an active Mormon right now however, I would be deeply troubled by the Newsroom's official statement. It is disingenuous and misleading. It is known why the ban was in place, it was taught right up to 1978, and still taught after that, to justify it in the first place. People of all races have NOT always been welcome in the church, and I know this from personal experience of tracting with missionaries whose MP's had told them to avoid teaching black people.

Mary
Last edited by Schreech on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Mary
_Emeritus
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Mary »

A PUBLIC APOLOGY

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

So runs the justifiably much celebrated introduction to the Declaration of Independence, which in 1776 marked the birth of the American nation, and a significant step forward in human enlightenment.

In 2012, we the undersigned, as a matter of conscience, make the following formal declaration, independent of the church with which we are or were formerly associated, (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or “Mormon Church”), that we in no way subscribe to the church’s historical stance towards our brothers and sisters of the black race.

We do so because in the 34 years since 1978, when our church, (for political and logistical reasons which are now becoming more apparent), permitted the same rights to all races, there has been no formal apology forthcoming from it to that race; this, despite the fact that the black race had been disparaged by it, frequently in the meanest terms, for over a century. We consider that the time is now long overdue for that regrettable deficiency to be redressed, if not by the institution which created it, then by the individual members, whose tacit support has enabled an injurious silence to prevail.

Specifically, we denounce the teachings of former spokespersons for the church, sustained by us or by our predecessors, as prophets, seers and revelators, which taught that blacks were:

• “uncouth, un-comely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:290-291, [1859])

• “placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits… it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, : Short Discourses on Gospel Themes, 43. [1931])

• “not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from…. It is the Lord's doing.” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 527-528, [1966])

And we further denounce deliberate attempts to cover up and misrepresent these facts to the present generation, especially as those misrepresentations relate to the many thousands of black converts who are currently members of the church. There are recent statements such as:

• “I don’t know what the reason was.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, church president, when asked in a Compass interview in 1997 what the reason had been for the pre-1978 inequality).

• “It is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction began but what is clear is that it ended decades ago.” (Formal church response to article on racism, run by The Washington Post, 2012.)

In our view such statements are calculated to misrepresent the historical reality, and are an affront to decency, impugning the reputations of all whose names, even by inference, may be associated with them. We unequivocally denounce this pretended institutional amnesia as politically motivated, and immoral.

We further denounce the various interpratations of the verses contained in The Book of Abraham, which remain to this day an integral part of church canon. The verses in question, (Abraham 1:21-24,27), support the teaching that blacks were cursed, and were always inferior in their rights.

We apologize without reserve as individuals who, having been misled by such misguided teachings, unintentionally gave support to the view that the black race was in some way inferior to others. Lest there be any misunderstanding, we now therefore invoke the spirit of the American Declaration of Independence, and proclaim it to be self-evident that all men, and women, are created to enjoy equal rights and privileges. In so doing, we distance ourselves for all time from the opinions of any who may believe this was ever otherwise, and beg forgiveness for our tardiness in standing up as individuals for this vital truth.

We the undersigned ask you, our black brothers and sisters, to accept our hand in apology, with your forgiveness and friendship, sharing together in the hope and vision of Dr Martin Luther King, that together “we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our [world] into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood [and sisterhood]. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day”.

To all the foregoing, we freely subscribe our names:


Chris has agreed to these amendments.

Please could anyone who is willing to sign their name to the amended document send a message to Chris at


rdennisnomenace@aol.com


This is an email set up specifically for this. Chris is happy for the debate over the statement and thinks it is a good thing.. Hopefully, he will register on here today...

Thanks all, both for and against.

Mary
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_why me
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _why me »

Miss Taken wrote:
A PUBLIC APOLOGY


Please could anyone who is willing to sign their name to the amended document send a message to Chris at


rdennisnomenace@aol.com


This is an email set up specifically for this. Chris is happy for the debate over the statement and thinks it is a good thing.. Hopefully, he will register on here today...

Thanks all, both for and against.

Mary


Is this a joke? So, years and years later someone needs to give a public apology? Maybe the British need to offer a public apology for subjugating the world and putting millions of people under their yoke, including the Irish peoples. Really, Mary, I am surprised at you. Everybody wants to be a victim these days and the former Mormons are no exception to the rule.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
_Emeritus
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Re: A formal apology...

Post by _why me »

Can you please define who is a black person? It is my understanding that 'black' brazilians had no problems in getting the priesthood.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Drifting
_Emeritus
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Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Drifting »

why me wrote:Can you please define who is a black person? It is my understanding that 'black' brazilians had no problems in getting the priesthood.



Why Me,

How did Bishops determine (prior to 1978) which of the members had to be barred from the Priesthood and Temple admittance during worthiness interviews?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_why me
_Emeritus
Posts: 9589
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _why me »

Drifting wrote:
why me wrote:Can you please define who is a black person? It is my understanding that 'black' brazilians had no problems in getting the priesthood.



Why Me,

How did Bishops determine (prior to 1978) which of the members had to be barred from the Priesthood and Temple admittance during worthiness interviews?


You tell me. The patriarchal blessing helped. This was never a color thing. Many hispanics joined the church and they had no problem with the priesthood ban. And hispanics come in a multitude of colors.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Drifting »

why me wrote:
Drifting wrote:Why Me,

How did Bishops determine (prior to 1978) which of the members had to be barred from the Priesthood and Temple admittance during worthiness interviews?


You tell me. The patriarchal blessing helped. This was never a color thing. Many hispanics joined the church and they had no problem with the priesthood ban. And hispanics come in a multitude of colors.



I don't know, hence the question.

You didn't (and still don't) need a Patriarchal blessing as a prerequisite for either the Priesthood or Temple admittance. So they must have used a different screening method.

If I was to guess I'd say Bishops used skin colour, but that would be a guess.
Anyone who was a Bishop in 1977 or earlier care to offer an answer?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Chap »

Miss Taken wrote:Please could anyone who is willing to sign their name to the amended document send a message to Chris at

rdennisnomenace@aol.com


This is an email set up specifically for this. Chris is happy for the debate over the statement and thinks it is a good thing.. Hopefully, he will register on here today...

Thanks all, both for and against.

Mary


Your friend may like to consider a more up to date (and free) way of gathering signatures for a petition:

Look at this link:

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/

I suspect that by using that he will get a LOT more signatures more quickly than by waiting for people to email him.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Buffalo
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Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
A PUBLIC APOLOGY


If this was coming from the Democratic party, ACORN, and the parasitic poverty industry that has festered and grown upon the bloated, government program egg laying sack of the welfare state that has fattened itself upon the decomposing corpse of the black family, this would really be something. A long delayed admission of guilt and penance for deep and, for many, permanent scars and blight on lives and souls.

blah blah blah


You already revealed your white supremacist leanings last week. No need to belabor the point.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: A formal apology...

Post by _Chap »

Buffalo wrote:
Droopy wrote:
If this was coming from the Democratic party, ACORN, and the parasitic poverty industry that has festered and grown upon the bloated, government program egg laying sack of the welfare state that has fattened itself upon the decomposing corpse of the black family, this would really be something. A long delayed admission of guilt and penance for deep and, for many, permanent scars and blight on lives and souls.

blah blah blah


You already revealed your white supremacist leanings last week. No need to belabor the point.


I think you are forgetting that Droopy is not racist at all. We know this because he has told us that he is not. He really likes black people and wants only the best for them, which is why he wants to protect them from interference by the Federal Government.

I believe, too, that he would be very happy to see all black people riding in Cadillacs.

(Incidentally, do sacks lay eggs where Droopy comes from?)
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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