"don't embarrass yourself by asking about metallurgy..."

[_Sophocles]

Once again, Tobin starts off talking about faith and evidence, but when challenged his position eventually reveals itself as the well worn bandwagon fallacy.

I suppose Krishna isn't real and a billion Hindus are crazy? Good luck with that.

[_Tobin]

Once again, Tobin starts off talking about faith and evidence, but when challenged his position eventually reveals itself as the well worn bandwagon fallacy.

I suppose Krishna isn't real and a billion Hindus are crazy? Good luck with that.

I started off discussing my faith and the evidence I base it on. I was offering no evidence on which to base your faith on. And pointing out that the vaste majority of the planet believe in a supreme being and aren't likely to be delusional or insane is a very valid argument. It is laughable for someone to propose that faith in a God is a delusion given that fact.

[Guest]

Once again, Tobin starts off talking about faith and evidence, but when challenged his position eventually reveals itself as the well worn bandwagon fallacy.

I suppose Krishna isn't real and a billion Hindus are crazy? Good luck with that.

I started off discussing my faith and the evidence I base it on. I was offering no evidence on which to base your faith on. And pointing out that the vaste majority of the planet believe in a supreme being and aren't likely to be delusional or insane is a very valid argument. It is laughable for someone to propose that faith in a God is a delusion given that fact.

What basis do you have to state the the majority of homo sapiens are unlikely to be delusional?

Until recently a majority of homo sapiens practiced infanticide.

[Guest]

I started off discussing my faith and the evidence I base it on. I was offering no evidence on which to base your faith on. And pointing out that the vaste majority of the planet believe in a supreme being and aren't likely to be delusional or insane is a very valid argument. It is laughable for someone to propose that faith in a God is a delusion given that fact.

You acted as if you had rock solid evidence of the existence of God and encouraged me to get the same so that I could base or build my faith on that platform. You repeatedly said you know there is a God but failed to produce evidence on how you know. I countered your argument by noting that feelings and thoughts are not evidence and you got a little defensive. You failed to tender any ideas of what your rock solid evidence was. Your claims are hollow. I don't trust you. You seem devious and bent on deception.

Look. You ain't seen Jesus, Tobin. Your belief in him is based squarely on the conditions of faith and nothing more. No rock solid evidence in your camp. You're just one of those believers going around talking about how wonderful Jesus is and how he saves from their sins. Give me a break.

Paul O

[_Chap]

... pointing out that the vaste majority of the planet believe in a supreme being and aren't likely to be delusional or insane is a very valid argument. It is laughable for someone to propose that faith in a God is a delusion given that fact.

To base an estimate the truth of a belief on the number of people who hold that belief is not a valid argument at all. One might even call such an argument 'laughable'.

It is very likely that most human beings still believe in some kind of magic - whether in the form of a full-scale ability of some people to put spells on others, or at least in some kind of 'evil eye', intentional or not. But that does not make magic real. And so on.

[_Shulem]

It is laughable for someone to propose that faith in a God is a delusion given that fact.

The early Christians had all kinds of faith that Jesus was quickly coming back and the apostle Paul wrote like it would be coming soon, on the heels of the last days, soon at hand!

St John said that Jesus was coming quickly. Yes, it was supposed to happen. But guess what? Jesus never came back. He is a no show. 2000 years have gone by and the promise of his return is nothing more than fantasy based on a dead faith.

Jesus isn't coming back, Tobin. 2000 years and counting!! Christians are deluding themselves by the centuries.

Paul O

[_Tobin]

I started off discussing my faith and the evidence I base it on. I was offering no evidence on which to base your faith on. And pointing out that the vaste majority of the planet believe in a supreme being and aren't likely to be delusional or insane is a very valid argument. It is laughable for someone to propose that faith in a God is a delusion given that fact.

You acted as if you had rock solid evidence of the existence of God and encouraged me to get the same so that I could base or build my faith on that platform. You repeatedly said you know there is a God but failed to produce evidence on how you know. I countered your argument by noting that feelings and thoughts are not evidence and you got a little defensive. You failed to tender any ideas of what your rock solid evidence was. Your claims are hollow. I don't trust you. You seem devious and bent on deception.

Look. You ain't seen Jesus, Tobin. Your belief in him is based squarely on the conditions of faith and nothing more. No rock solid evidence in your camp. You're just one of those believers going around talking about how wonderful Jesus is and how he saves from their sins. Give me a break.

Paul O

Again, that is just a mischaracterization of what I stated. The rock solid evidence is seeing and experiencing God for yourself and I related it to the Christ's parable of the builder who built upon a rock vs the sand. This is also what the prophets experienced and is related in many holy books. So stating that the faith of billions of human beings is based on delusions can not be taken seriously.

[_Chap]

... stating that the faith of billions of human beings is based on delusions can not be taken seriously.

As I pointed out above, there are no grounds for claiming that a belief held by a large number of people is, simply in version of the size of that number, more likely to be true.

But even if it was the case, the number of human beings who have claimed like Tobin to have talked directly with a deity on a personal basis in which he has talked back to them, as opposed to simply addressing a prayer to a deity, is likely to prove very, very small.

[_Shulem]

Again, that is just a mischaracterization of what I stated. The rock solid evidence is seeing and experiencing God for yourself and I related it to the Christ's parable of the builder who built upon a rock vs the sand. This is also what the prophets experienced and is related in many holy books. So stating that the faith of billions of human beings is based on delusions can not be taken seriously.

Goddamnit. You are a dishonest Christian. Take your rock solid evidence and shove it. Don't try and sing and dance a new tune to wiggle out of your mess.

Billions of Christians have faith in something that simply is not true. Other religions have the same problem.

Paul O

[_Sophocles]

In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names, including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, and bandwagon fallacy, and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.

Nuh-uh, it's a totally valid argument.

Well, I guess that settles it.