Elder Bruce R. McConkie said this in his last conference address:
And now, as pertaining to this perfect atonement, wrought by the shedding of the blood of God—I testify that it took place in Gethsemane and at Golgotha, and as pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God and was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person. I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears.But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.”
One of the most powerful witnesses of the resurrected Christ ever shared with mankind.
From an Apostle.
I don’t think his experience with the Savior and his depth in understanding/appreciation for Christ’s atonement is unique among the Apostles.
He stood up at the podium knowing he would be dead within days and go to meet his maker.
If he had a personal and undeniable witness of Christ one might assume that others have too.
I'm not sure if you are misreading Bruce's statement on purpose or accidentally. The portion you quoted very clearly is him saying that he has such faith in Jesus that actually seeing Jesus would not be necessary, so great is his belief. This is the very common Mormon trope of "I know with every fiber of my being that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God" but dressed up a bit spiffier.
This trope is very common in other Christian sects, and in some other faith traditions. Many people seem to have trouble delineating between their own very deeply felt opinions and facts. This difficulty is one of the primary causes of religious wars. There is no "absolute truth" when it comes to philosophy or religion, no matter how warm and fuzzy one feels to the contrary.
Elder Bruce R. McConkie said this in his last conference address:
One of the most powerful witnesses of the resurrected Christ ever shared with mankind.
From an Apostle.
I don’t think his experience with the Savior and his depth in understanding/appreciation for Christ’s atonement is unique among the Apostles.
He stood up at the podium knowing he would be dead within days and go to meet his maker.
If he had a personal and undeniable witness of Christ one might assume that others have too.
I'm not sure if you are misreading Bruce's statement on purpose or accidentally. The portion you quoted very clearly is him saying that he has such faith in Jesus that actually seeing Jesus would not be necessary, so great is his belief. This is the very common Mormon trope of "I know with every fiber of my being that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God" but dressed up a bit spiffier.
This trope is very common in other Christian sects, and in some other faith traditions. Many people seem to have trouble delineating between their own very deeply felt opinions and facts. This difficulty is one of the primary causes of religious wars. There is no "absolute truth" when it comes to philosophy or religion, no matter how warm and fuzzy one feels to the contrary.
I think what BRM said speaks for itself. I suppose one might analyze what he said and extrapolate other meanings or lack of meaning.
Thank you. I found a report on the area conferences in the August 1976 Ensign. The Church News of 26 June 1976 also had some coverage (although the joke wasn’t noted).
Of course, none of the Scots there would have recognized what was said as a joke. The original is also pretty lame
From what I remember, almost 50 years later, I told Elder Whatsisname:
malkie wrote:
They say that the west of Scotland has the best climate in the world. It's just a pity that the weather is lousy all the time.
In conference, it came out something like:
Elder Whatsisname wrote:A member of one of the district presidencies told me that the weather here is terrible in spite of the climate.
Anyway, my main claim to (Mormon) fame is having been misquoted in a general conference by a GA. Unfortunately it's not the kind of fame that you can take to the bank.
It's a great story. By the way, I read President Kimball's words to the Glasgow attendees: "The temple in Scotland hasn't come, but it will if you really want it, but you must really want it." His prophecy has now been fulfilled.
IF MG is so impressed with Bruce R's borderline possible admission that he saw Jesus in the flesh, imagine if all of the apostle's testified with confidence that they saw the resurrected Christ?
We ought to stay with what we have to work with. That’s what I’m doing.
I’ve stated that if we go off of what BRM said in conference, almost literally on his deathbed, we might extrapolate from what he said that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ that may be as deep and knowledgeable as the testimony BRM bore on his final visit to the pulpit…and before God…while still in the flesh.
IF MG is so impressed with Bruce R's borderline possible admission that he saw Jesus in the flesh, imagine if all of the apostle's testified with confidence that they saw the resurrected Christ?
They will never do so because none of them have seen Jesus and they all know they haven't. This is the paradox of revelation. It always is started by hucksters and liars trying to get advantage. Once the true believers take over, they either become hucksters themselves or they realize that claiming revelations is profoundly arrogant and sacrilegious, and so downplay such things ever after, while banishing the thought that perhaps the founder's revelations might have also not happened.
I’ve stated that if we go off of what BRM said in conference, almost literally on his deathbed, we might extrapolate from what he said that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ that may be as deep and knowledgeable as the testimony BRM bore on his final visit to the pulpit…and before God…while still in the flesh.
Why would we expect anything different?
Because he did not say that he saw Jesus, or anything close to it. You are imagining that he did. McConkie did not say he had anything other than a very strong feeling of belief. He was saying that he looked forward to seeing Jesus after he died, but that doing so would not make him believe more in Mormonism.
IF MG is so impressed with Bruce R's borderline possible admission that he saw Jesus in the flesh, imagine if all of the apostle's testified with confidence that they saw the resurrected Christ?
We ought to stay with what we have to work with. That’s what I’m doing.
I’ve stated that if we go off of what BRM said in conference, almost literally on his deathbed, we might extrapolate from what he said that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ that may be as deep and knowledgeable as the testimony BRM bore on his final visit to the pulpit…and before God…while still in the flesh.
Why would we expect anything different?
Regards,
MG
We might also extrapolate from what he said that, given his approaching death, what he describes as "knowledge" is "hope." And then can reasonable extrapolate from that to others who have made similar statements.
he/him
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time so that my children can live in peace.” — Thomas Paine
IF MG is so impressed with Bruce R's borderline possible admission that he saw Jesus in the flesh, imagine if all of the apostle's testified with confidence that they saw the resurrected Christ?
They will never do so because none of them have seen Jesus and they all know they haven't. This is the paradox of revelation. It always is started by hucksters and liars trying to get advantage. Once the true believers take over, they either become hucksters themselves or they realize that claiming revelations is profoundly arrogant and sacrilegious, and so downplay such things ever after, while banishing the thought that perhaps the founder's revelations might have also not happened.
I’ve stated that if we go off of what BRM said in conference, almost literally on his deathbed, we might extrapolate from what he said that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ that may be as deep and knowledgeable as the testimony BRM bore on his final visit to the pulpit…and before God…while still in the flesh.
Why would we expect anything different?
Because he did not say that he saw Jesus, or anything close to it. You are imagining that he did. McConkie did not say he had anything other than a very strong feeling of belief. He was saying that he looked forward to seeing Jesus after he died, but that doing so would not make him believe more in Mormonism.
We ought to stay with what we have to work with. That’s what I’m doing.
I’ve stated that if we go off of what BRM said in conference, almost literally on his deathbed, we might extrapolate from what he said that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ that may be as deep and knowledgeable as the testimony BRM bore on his final visit to the pulpit…and before God…while still in the flesh.
Why would we expect anything different?
Regards,
MG
We might also extrapolate from what he said that, given his approaching death, what he describes as "knowledge" is "hope." And then can reasonable extrapolate from that to others who have made similar statements.
That’s true. You might extrapolate that from what he said.
We ought to stay with what we have to work with. That’s what I’m doing.
I’ve stated that if we go off of what BRM said in conference, almost literally on his deathbed, we might extrapolate from what he said that other apostles have a deep and knowledgeable witness of Christ that may be as deep and knowledgeable as the testimony BRM bore on his final visit to the pulpit…and before God…while still in the flesh.
Why would we expect anything different?
Others were possibly distorting what he said to lessen its impact and meaning.
