New Church Logo of Jesus in a Bell Jar?

[Shulem]

In General Conference of October 1906, elder Hyrum M. Smith of the Quorum of the Twelve, addressed the very subject of graven images in the Ten Commandments. His address was given while his father, President Joseph F. Smith, presided over the conference. The young apostle was careful in making his address under the direction of the President of the Church and to maintain a strict adherence to the traditions and teachings passed down by the founding prophet, Joseph Smith.

I am under considerable anxiety this afternoon in regard to what I shall be led to say, as there appears to be, on the part of some, a fear that I might say something not entirely complimentary to the traducers of the brethren and of our people. But I desire to be conservative, if possible, and in order to be so I will read a little scripture, judging that by reading the scriptures no one will take offense; and I will endeavor to studiously avoid reading the 23rd chapter of Matthew. I was reading a little while ago a story which contained a certain sentence put, by the author, into the mouth of one of the characters of the story, by which it would seem he endeavored to justify himself in wrongdoing. The sentence was as follows: 'Everybody knows the Ten Commandments, but nobody keeps them.' Now, that sentence impressed me with considerable force, and I could not instantly dismiss it. I thought over it considerably, and I wondered in my heart how true it was, or if it were true, at all or not. The more I thought of it the more I became convinced that, if it were not true, still it approached very nearly to being the truth; and I have in mind this afternoon to read the Ten Commandments, as delivered by the Lord to Moses, in the mountain, and which were written by the Lord upon the tablets of stone:

'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' I reviewed that commandment and applied it to the Latter-day Saints. I felt in my heart that most of the Latter-day Saints kept that commandment; that there were no other gods that the Latter-day Saints worshiped, but that they worshiped the true and the living God, the God of Abraham, of Isaac; and Jacob — the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. We, as Latter-day Saints, worship God, and we have no other god; if we worship at all, it is our Father in Heaven whom we worship.

'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.' That also, I am constrained to believe, is a commandment kept by the Latter-day Saints. They have not bowed down to other gods; they have not raised up to themselves gods of stone or of brass; they have not worshiped anything in the heavens or in the earth, or which is under the earth; but this same God, the Father of our spirits, do we worship, and none other. I believe we are not guilty of the charge of not keeping this commandment. 'Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.'

Elder Smith went on to comment on how the Lord manifested Himself to the Latter-day Saints in Person, as he did to Moses on the mountain when the commandments were first given to the children of Israel. Hence, the true and living God was manifested in Person in both dispensations wherein his form and image was given in the manifestation. The divine command to refrain from worshipping other gods or the making of graven images to any god, let alone the true God, was expressly forbidden in the couplet of the commandment to have no other gods or graven images of God.

I think it's clear that Joseph Smith and his successors up to this point did not fashion graven images of God, including that of statues of Jesus Christ to be displayed and adored by the public, a common practice of the Roman Catholic church and the rest of apostatized Christianity. The Second Commandment given on the stone tablets was strictly obeyed by Joseph Smith, the founding prophet of Mormonism, and his successors that followed his example.

[Shulem]

Six years later in 1912, President Smith addressed the saints and reiterated the fundamental importance of the Ten Commandments:

I believe with all my soul in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and in the law of God, and I do not think any honest and intelligent man or woman could help but believe in the justice, the righteousness and the purity of the laws that God wrote upon the tablets of stone. These principles that I propose to read to you are the foundation and basic principles of the Constitution of our country, and are eternal, enduring forevermore, and cannot be changed or ignored with impunity:

The Ten Commandments are as American as apple pie! They endure forever and can't be changed or ignored. They are what they are, period.

'And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God which hath brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.'

That is what it means now, and what it meant to the Latter-day Saints and what the Latter-day Saints understood it to mean when they embraced the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

President Smith acknowledged the first part of the divine couplet which is the First Commandment and then continued with the Second:

'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

'Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor serve them, for I, the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the inquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and showing mercy unto them that love me and keep my commandments.'

President Smith goes on to affirm that the commandment is strictly in accordance with God's law. He then cites the Third Commandment which is to not take the name of the Lord in vain and expounds on the incontestable virtue of the commandments, saying:

This is an eternal principle; it is not one that we may obey today and disobey tomorrow, or that we may espouse today as a part of our faith, and abandon tomorrow with impunity. It is a principle that is inherent in the plan of life and salvation, for the regeneration of mankind.

I think it's safe to say that President Smith did not set up graven images (statues) of Christus on church property. A strict adherence in avoiding graven images was the Mormon way. Not until later, did Church Presidents weaken to the enticing nature of idols and used graven images in public showings to express their belief and devotion to the God in which the very image represents.

[Moksha]

Could someone check and see if that is Sylvia Plath in the bell jar next to mine?

[Shulem]

Could someone check and see if that is Sylvia Plath in the bell jar next to mine?

I've checked that out for you, Moksha. Perceived subliminal messaging makes the new Church Logo appear mentally disturbed -- suggesting deep psychological disorder. That was something I attempted to impress at the beginning of this thread when posting pictures of someone being trapped in a bell jar. This entrapment is ultimately expressed with a graven image (idol) of Christus and sealing him up in what appears to be a glass jar -- an eternal tomb. The idea that he is rising from an arched tomb as President Nelson suggests is snuffed out by the casing in which encloses him as if he's eternally trapped in a bubble -- frozen in time, forever.

Thus, the interpretation offered by President Nelson is self-defeating.

Here is your bell jar, Moksha:

The Bell Jar

The Bell Jar is the only novel written by the American writer and poet Sylvia Plath. Originally published under the pseudonym "Victoria Lucas" in 1963, the novel is semi-autobiographical, with the names of places and people changed. The book is often regarded as a roman à clef because the protagonist's descent into mental illness parallels Plath's own experiences with what may have been clinical depression or bipolar II disorder.



First edition cover, published under Sylvia Plath's pseudonym, "Victoria Lucas."

[Moksha]

I was uncertain as to whether or not this might aid Shulem's discussion.
(Or whether it might be more Sic et Non-type discussion material. Notice that
there is no specific cut for funeral potatoes).

[Shulem]

Thank you for the potato example, Moksha. It's a perfect example to show that no matter how you slice it, you're getting more of the same. The same goes for the making of graven images -- made and fashioned to represent one's deity or god. No matter how you slice it, it's still a graven image or a part thereof taken from the whole. The point being, Moses, the lawgiver, delivered the commandments to his people -- written by the finger of God. Now, I'm not saying that I personally agree with Moses, because I don't! I, view Moses as an autocratic dictator who established a new religion which I think was utterly horrible. But that's beside the point.

Moses said what he said and enforced those laws he claimed came from God. The making of graven images of God was absolutely forbidden, period. No excuses. No exceptions. That was the law. Neither Jesus or his New Testament church changed that law or modified it to make images of Old Testament Jehovah or New Testament Christus. No graven images, period. That was a standing law to last forever until the Christian church started to invent their own ideas of Christian worship and Catholics rampantly adopted the custom and practice of making graven images and justifying them for their own pious purposes. But no matter how you make or slice an idol, it's still an idol! It's a violation of the law of God just as telling lies or committing murder. The making of graven images to glorify God was strictly forbidden under the divine code that was etched in stone: The Ten Commandments (Ten, not Nine).

Am I rambling? What does it take to make the point that all of Christendom including the Mormons have apostatized from Israel's divine law and do it with not just a song and and dance but a prayer in their heart! But, alas, as we have seen, no matter how you slice a potato, it's still a potato, and no matter how you slice an idol, it's still an idol.

[Shulem]

5 things you never knew about
the Christus statue

President Spencer W. Kimball, after viewing the Christus and Thorvaldsen's Twelve Apostles in the Church of Our Lady, stated that "the man who created these statues was surely inspired of the Lord."

There is not a single reference or precedent in the scriptures that would indicate anyone could be divinely inspired to make a graven image of the Lord. This is entirely a new concept introduced into Mormonism. It's the introduction of the Church entering into the Christian practice of idolatry.

3. Both President Spencer W. Kimball and Elder Steven L. Richards called the statue and its creator "inspired."

President Spencer W. Kimball, after viewing the Christus and Thorvaldsen's Twelve Apostles in the Church of Our Lady, stated that "the man who created these statues was surely inspired of the Lord."

On another occasion in September 1950, Elder Richards (then a member of the Sunday School general superintendency) and his wife Irene visited the Church of Our Lady while in Copenhagen. According to Philip Richards, Elder and Sister Richards's son, while his parents were in the Danish cathedral, they had an "awe-inspiring experience" while gazing at the Christus and "the idea was planted in his father's mind that a copy of this statue needed to be on Temple Square." It would be a few more years until that inspiration would unfold in reality.

Elder Stephen L. Richards was the First Counselor to David O McKay and was so impressed with the Christus statue that he purchased a marble replica as a gift for President McKay. The statue was later placed in the Visitors' Center.

The opportunity came in the 1950s, when the Temple Square Presidency was assigned to find ways to improve missionary work at the historic site. The plans to build a new center were approved by the First Presidency in 1955.

One of President McKay's main concerns for the Church was to spread Mormonism around the world and to extend its influence making it a worldwide Church. At the time, Mormonism was viewed as an American church that was beginning to extend its presence and influence in many countries around the world. The Church was generally known for its non-traditional views of Christianity and was therefore tasked with finding new ways to extend its influence and improve its image.

Around this same time, plans were brainstormed to provide visitors with a guided tour of the grounds. According to George Cannon Young, it was in a planning meeting that Elder Richard L. Evans, then President of the Temple Square Presidency and member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, commented, "You know, the world thinks we're not Christians because they see no evidence of Christ on this square. They hear the words, but see no evidence."

The above confession made by Elder Richard L. Evans (member of the Council of the Twelve Apostles) made it perfectly clear that the world failed to view Mormons as Christians because they see no evidence of Christ on temple square! It's like all of the sudden a new realization is brought to light. Never mind that former Church Presidents: Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F. Smith, Heber J. Grant, and George Albert Smith -- all of these former Church Presidents failed to realize that Christ was not evident on Temple Square wherein visitors were deprived of making the connection that Mormons were Christians.

As the group discussed possible images that would meet their criteria of having a representation of Christ that would "make an impact upon the world--one that would be world-known and be received without creating controversy," Marion D. Hanks suggested using a marble copy of Bertel Thorvaldsen's Christus.

The committee discussed how to find new ways to make the Church look more Christian in the eyes of the world. Elder Hanks, a young and up-and-coming member of the First Council of Seventy made the suggestion that using a graven image of Christus is the answer or solution to their dilemma.

On June 7, 1957, the Church Building Committee met with the First Presidency to present their proposal to use a marble copy of Thorvaldsen’s statue on Temple Square. Even though the Temple Square Presidency felt certain that a heroic-sized statue of Christ should be placed on the Square, they were nervous how the First Presidency might react to such a proposal. After all, statuary of Christ had never been a part of traditional Latter-day Saint worship.

Note carefully from above, and mark it clearly:

"After all, statuary of Christ had never been a part of traditional Latter-day Saint worship"


to be continued

[Shulem]

At the hesitancy of the rest of the committee to describe their proposal, Temple Square President Stephen L. Richards announced that the building plans included a spot for the Christus.

And so it began, the Church officially proceeded with plans to have a marble replica version of the Christus hand crafted in Italy. The making of the statue was sanctioned by the First Presidency and formerly introduced to the Church as a new approach in visualizing and appreciating the Savior. President Richards, soon after arranging the order for the crafting of the graven image of Christus, "became gravely ill and passed away just days before the finished statue arrived in Salt Lake City. Sadly, he never saw the statue that he hoped would become a legacy to the Church."

The introduction of a graven image to represent Jesus Christ was entirely a new concept in the Church and was a clear departure from the standing tradition of avoiding graven images -- not to imitate the apostate practice of Christendom by setting up statuary of Christ to adore. Up until this point, the Church kept the biblical commandment whereby graven images of Deity were not tolerated in the House Israel. The Church maintained that Christ was the rock of Israel and the chief cornerstone of the holy temple. The making of a statue to publicly express his glory and image as a focal point of faith and belief in his Person was not a consideration.

Statues to honor prophets and saints were acceptable but the Person of Jesus Christ was everlasting truth itself and could never be appropriated into a graven image, doing so defiles the Law of Moses:

Peter tells us in holy writ that, "all flesh is as the grass and the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth and the flower thereof falleth away; but the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." Just as the statue of the Prophet Joseph and the statue of his brother the Patriarch stand upon granite foundations, so the gospel of salvation is grounded upon the granite bedrock of everlasting truth.

In this connection I would like to call your attention to the growth of interest that we find in coming up to the headquarters of the Church and visiting this Temple Block, where we are increasing the number of testimonies in stone as well as in word; multiplying in bronze as well as by verbal utterance, the memorials of God's dealings with His people.

I would like to read to you, as introductory to inviting your attention to these things, a passage from the old scriptures relating to a certain great incident in the history of ancient Israel. When Joshua was leading Israel from the east side of Jordan to the west side, the Lord apparently desired to magnify His name, both in Israel and among the peoples of that country ; and, therefore, with power and an outstretched arm He began the establishment of His people in the promised land. In crossing Jordan, at the flood tide —which occurs at the harvest time — he caused that when the priests took the Ark of the covenant, — which was the sign of God's visible presence in Israel, — when they carried it to the waters of Jordan, the waters were divided, and the priests stood in the bed of the river, the waters being held back by the power of God, while the hosts of Israel passed over dry shod. Joshua was commanded to direct twelve men in Israel, one from each tribe, to go to the place where the priests stood and carry from thence stones, which should be erected as a memorial altar unto the Lord, of the manifestation of His power on that occasion in behalf of His people. I now read what the scriptures say about that incident:

"Then Joshua called the twelve men, whom he had prepared of the children of Israel, out of every tribe a man; And Joshua said unto them; Pass over before the Ark of the Lord your God, into the midst of Jordan, and take you up, every man of you, a stone upon his shoulder, according unto the number of tribes of the children of Israel" . . . .

The Lord was anxious, apparently, that there should be a testimony in stone, an enduring monument of the manifestation of His power in behalf of Israel. I think I catch a glimpse of the same spirit in the experiences of modern Israel. For many years, now, with a great joy, I have looked upon this magnificent Temple upon this block, as a collective testimony in stone, to God's presence and power and salvation, among the Latter-day Saints that is mightier, perhaps, than the verbal testimony of any man, because it may be seen by so many, unmoved through many generations, and has been established by the collective mites of a community. They have builded a monument of testimony in stone that God has given commandments to this generation. I was struck not long since, when writing the history of the times in which the foundations of this Temple were laid. . . . .

Out here on this Temple-square, we have the bronze statue of Joseph Smith, the prophet of the great and new dispensation of the Gospel ; and the statue also of his faithful brother, Hyrum Smith, standing upon granite pedestals, properly inscribed, declaring their mission and their achievements in the world, so far as those achievements can be briefly stated, saying, doubtless, in the inscriptions what the Prophet Joseph would like to say if he could meet face to face the tens and hundreds of thousands of people who read the burning words of truth which God gave him to speak to this generation. These utterances are recorded upon the bronze tablets, and the Prophet is thus voicing forth his message to the world, and though dead, yet speaketh, in this memorial of bronze and stone, that loving hands have erected upon this square. . . . .

Long may these testimonies of stone and bronze, which our feeble hands have erected, stand on this sacred block as God's witnesses unto the inhabitants of the earth, that He has given a new dispensation of His truth to man, and confirmed it by a manifestation of His mercy and power in the deliverance of His people, I pray, in the name of Jesus. Amen.

No statues or bronze images were made to glorify or represent Jesus Christ on Temple Square. Never at any time was a revelation given to disregard the Second Commandment given by Moses!

We have decided to erect on this block a monument in honor of the Three Witnesses (perhaps we will include the Eight Witnesses), to be located in the rear of the statues of Presidents Joseph and Hyrum Smith.

But no statues of Jesus!

As President Grant has stated here today there is no doubt in our minds about the reality of the First Vision of Joseph Smith. Every religion is built upon a conception of God. The Lord, knowing this, has declared himself in all generations. The first statement in Holy Writ makes it clear that man must understand the true God and must not worship false gods nor set up gods for himself. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" — Almighty God, not blind forces, made the earth and the heavens above. Later on, out of the thunders and lightnings of Sinai, the first commandment was: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." And on the back of the statue of Joseph Smith, in this square, you will find as a great fundamental message, that "It is the first great principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God."

As of October 1924:

[Yes] Statue of Joseph Smith
[No] Statue of Jesus

[Shulem]

President David O. McKay was tasked with bringing the Church into the modern age and doing everything in his power to secure a bright future for the Church as it was being established in countries all around the world.

Nobody can deny the fact that McKay broke with Mormon tradition and embraced the idea that Christian churches could righteously, and through inspiration, craft statues of Jesus Christ for the purpose of testifying of the Savior and building faith in the Christian religion.

As noted earlier in this thread, however, the predecessors of President McKay (including Joseph Smith) did not craft or display graven images of Christ. Further, there is no evidence in the scriptures (Old & New Testaments) that prophets or apostles at any time ever crafted graven images to the glory of the Lord. So now, we have a case where it is affirmed by everyone who can see with their own eyes that David O. McKay was personally responsible for introducing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints into the practice of idolatry.

But this is just the beginning -- a first step in breaking with Joseph Smith and embracing worldly views of so-called apostate Christendom. Today, the Church is rearing up graven images of the Christus all over the world as a universal symbol of the Church -- these statues are being reared up at a frantic pace at temple visitors' centers and other prominent Church buildings. There is no end in sight to how many Christus images will be set up in Church buildings. At the rate things are going, there may come a time when every Latter-day Saint chapel and stake center, is graced with an official image to adorn the foyer or meeting hall. Eventually, in time, perhaps the idol will find its way into the chapel itself!

More to come. Stay tuned!

[Shulem]

Thou shalt have no other gods before me




Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image




Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them




I the Lord thy God