Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

[_Jersey Girl]

At this point I absolutely don't believe a word Ron Karren has said about this child abuse. I know the fantasist AmyJo is on board, and for some reason Mary, who seems to be relatively sober-minded is on board, but this man is so up his own ass and has such a hard-on for his ex-wife and her family (because, god forbid, they got her out of a controlling and abusive relationship with Ron Karren) he'll go to no ends and throw his own children under the bus to f*** with his ex-in-laws.

The man is a pig.

And this is coming from an ex-Mormon atheist.

- Doc

Oh. my. god. Could you just write my posts for me? Because I could spend hours hammering out posts in an attempt to cut through the crap, and you do it in one paragraph. I want you and Shades to take over my screen name, because he does the same thing.

I over think everything. I swear I do.

[_Jersey Girl]

When you say that the evidence is unreliable is that because the alleged conversation took place privately and between family members who later found an axe to grind against each other in the divorce case?

I need to get off this thread, seriously, the fact that I believe that all of this is to no good end for the victim just pisses me off beyond my ability to express it.

1. The only person who claims that Mickelsen called the daughter's behavior "promiscuous" is Ron.
2. Ron was not a party to the phone call.
3. The use of the term as described by Ron is odd -- the word doesn't really fit.

No, it doesn't fit at all. I assumed previously, that an older man (GA) had used the term that perhaps fit with his religious upbringing or within the context of his own generation, but it doesn't fit the behavior at all.

4. The first time in the documentary evidence that Ron makes this claim is in 2012 -- ten years after the phone call and four years after his daughter tells him the story about the grandfather.

I lost the timeline, if it was presented, somewhere between page one and here.

5. Ron was interviewed by the therapist, but her report does not mention the phone all.
6. Ron was interviewed by the police detective, but her summary of the interview does not mention the phone call.
7. The first mention of the phone call in the documents is in the notes of Jean's call with the police detective. There is no mention of the word
"promiscuous" She describes the reason given by one or both of her parents as the daughter being too old to sit on the grandfather's lap.

I can't comment. I'm unfamiliar with the above.

8. The first appearance of the word "promiscuous" in the documents was something said by Jean in reference to her cousin, not her daughter. The context was not a discussion of the phone call. Jean's use of the word makes sense in context.

I read a reference to that.

9. Ron displays a consistent pattern of confabulation, especially when I contrast the documents from 2006-2008 with the story he begins to tell in 2012.

I suppose I would have noticed if only I'd kept up with the thread. My interest fizzled when I realized I would never catch up. Thank you for your comments.

[_Jersey Girl]

delete

[_Mary]

You're pissing me off, Mary, but don't let that stop you. Trust what they're doing is "right for them as a family"? In what way? I challenge you Mary, to visualize the now adult victim of early alleged sexual abuse sitting before you with the child she was sitting beside her and TELL ME how does any of this serve the child or the young woman she became? LOOK at her, Mary! Look at the child and the young woman. Look at her without the father in the picture. Without the mother. Without the siblings, without the grandparents, and without the bloody CHURCH. How is this helping HER in ANY meaningful or long term way?

I am happy to stand alone in this. Look, from my viewpoint RI has consistently looked at the same evidence I have, reading into it the worst of the father, and myself the best.

Again, at the centre of this, I believe, is a child who was labelled as promiscuous from age 6; a wife, father in law, extended family, leaders, and apostle Scott, who did everything in their power through 60 pages of untrue and unnecessary affidavits to alienate 3 kids from their father; and a young girl confessing to her father at age 12 that grandad did some wildly inappropriate things with her when she sat on his lap.

Understanding how Mormon royal families work, the daughter has already suffered through the labelling, through the approaches of the lds leaders towards her, and for *telling* on grandad.

Rather than being detrimental for the daughter, this is cathartic. It's an attempt to right a wrong that has festered in her family for years. She and her father are attempting to publicly shame Lynn Micklesen, because nothing else has worked. He wont admit what he did.

What would be incredibly sad in this, is if Ron became the subject on examination rather than Lynn. I think he and his daughter are hoping that if enough people get to know about this case, then it lifts the veil of secrecy and at some point Lynn will admit and apologise. He'll put his grandaughter before his church position and reputation. In that, I don't hold out much hope.

[_Mary]

I also believe, but am not certain, that the daughter is aware of this thread. I think it should be remembered that she loves her mum and dad and that they should be spoken about with kindness and respect for her sake as much as theirs. It was a hard situation for all of them.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

What would be incredibly sad in this, is if Ron became the subject on examination rather than Lynn.

Uh. That's his own doing. I can't believe you're not seeing the forest for the trees:

It means that if you look at things one at a time, you might not realize that a branch of separate "trees" go together to make a "forest"

When you are too close to a situation you need to step back and get a little perspective. When you do you will notice there was a whole forest you couldn't see before because you were too close, and focusing on the trees.

Simply that you have focused on the many details and have failed to see the overall view, impression or key point.

What's your deal? Why are you so in the camp for Ron Karren? He's a liar. He's controlling. He's abusive. And he's the one that provided all that information in order to make that assessment.

Look. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I have to tell you that you can't just take someone's word for how things are. Us ex-Mormons are very cynical precisely because we've been mislead. We can sniff out BS like no one else. Ron Karren is full of crap. I've been through a couple of divorces, a custody battle, and I know how these things go down. This dude just can't let go of losing. He lost. And he can't let it go. You need to snap out of it, sister.

- Doc

[_Chap]

I am amazed by the level of commitment we are seeing in this thread to one party or another in this unpleasant affair, and by the confidence with which people are prepared to shout abuse at the parties and at one another.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I am amazed by the level of commitment we are seeing in this thread to one party or another in this unpleasant affair, and by the confidence with which people are prepared to shout abuse at the parties and at one another.

Hey, man. I'm just going off the information that's been provided. Until the kid starts yammering, or Mickelsen issues a statement (unlikely [I wouldn't given the circumstances]) all we have, for this entire affair, is an obvious disturbed individual's testimonkey.

- Doc

[_Chap]

I am amazed by the level of commitment we are seeing in this thread to one party or another in this unpleasant affair, and by the confidence with which people are prepared to shout abuse at the parties and at one another.

Hey, man. I'm just going off the information that's been provided. Until the kid starts yammering, or Mickelsen issues a statement (unlikely [I wouldn't given the circumstances]) all we have, for this entire affair, is an obvious disturbed individual's testimonkey.

- Doc

Whatever is going on is clearly a very difficult affair for this family. Maybe outsiders should tread delicately and be a little reticent in their judgements of those involved? But it's a free board.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Uh. Maybe Dad should shut the “F” up.

I would never do this to my kid.

He's a narcissist piece of crap. If there were any teeth to this thing there would've been a lawsuit a long time ago.

- Doc

eta: C'mon, man.