Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

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_Res Ipsa
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Mary wrote:
That seems to be the case.


Other than his own analysis, are you suggesting that the documents Ron has released have been fabricated by him?
RI suggested that the divorce may have been precipitated over Ron being violent with his wife. I was answering that allegation specifically where Ron states the following....

K... spoke up and said, “She did that on the exercise cycle, last year.  I saw it bathing with her and she told me about it.”


Are you really suggesting that this is a lie given that his daughter is aware of and is reading his releases. Are you stating that this man has utterly no credibility whatsoever in anything because he has released these documents and you disapprove?


Mary, let me suggest something to you. A faithful, Mormon woman who believes that her husband holds the authority of the priesthood in the home might not respond to the question "Hey mom, where did you get that bruise?" with "Oh, it's from where your father smacked me around last night." In fact, as is fairly common with women who have been physically assaulted by their husbands, she might cover for her husband in order to shield the children from the event.

When people are reciting a narrative when they are not under the pressure of being questioned, they will generally do their best to avoid telling a direct lie. So when you read something that sounds circuitous when a direct response would be expected, that's a red flag that they are being evasive. With this in mind, let's look at what Ron actually said:

In her initial filing, she provided a picture of her thigh with a bruise on it, claiming I hit her. When I met with the children for the first time in late June 2006 (after being taken to Idaho), the kids naturally inquired as to why we were getting divorced. I mentioned this picture of the bruise on Jean’s thigh, that I supposedly hit her. Kylee spoke up and said, “She did that on the exercise cycle, last year. I saw it bathing with her and she told me about it.”


First, notice what he never says: "I didn't hit my wife." Why not? Perhaps because addressing the issue this way allows him to say only literally true things. Because you think Ron is a credible person, you just bought into the fact that Jean lied. You never stopped to think about the possibility that Jean did lie, but to her daughter at the time for perfectly understandable reasons. It's even consistent with these facts that Ron actually knew how Jean had covered for him when he asked the question of his children. This is how manipulative people operate, and I think it is extremely naïve to just accept Ron's narrative without stopping and asking yourself if there is another interpretation of the facts that could be true.

So which is true, Mary? Did Ron hit Jean and she covered for him with the kids. Or did she just lie, forgetting she'd already told the truth to her daughter?

I've got stuff to do, but I can show you more examples of this type of evasion in Ron's story. And I can show you exactly how he creates a false impression by telling strictly true statements. If you blindly follow along, you're just being led by the nose by someone who is not being honest with you.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Mary wrote:Right now, I don't want to get into an extended conversation with Jersey Girl and I am pretty sure she doesn't want to get into an extended conversation with me.


Why do you think that?

I'd love to get into an extended conversation with you beginning with you directly answering the questions that I've posed to you. Asking about why you are asking about someone's level of expertise on this thread isn't a derailment when you previously asked for mine on this very thread.

I saw another post on another thread where you inquired, yet again, about the level of expertise of another poster. I essentially asked you for your rationale, and you blew off my question by saying you were too tired to deal with it.

And yet, here you are posting away on this thread so I asked you again. Either you are no longer tired or you're simply avoiding explaining your thought processes.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Mary
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Mary »

That's entirely possible RI (that the mother was covering for her husband). What's the best evidence you have that he hit her?
And even if he did hit her or she hit him or they both hit the children, does that mean that everything he has said about his suspicions of his daughter's alleged abuse before her telling him, or after in 2008 when she details the abuse, are untrue?

Again, Ron may be have been a terrible husband and an angry man out for revenge, but within that is a daughter who seems to have been molested and used for sexual gratification by her grandfather.
Have you seen the latest updates?
Last edited by Schreech on Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Lemmie
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Lemmie »

Mary wrote:Lemmie, let me state again, I am responding to RIs suggestion that the divorce was precipitated by Ron hitting J.
I defended Ron by showing where his daughter suggested that the bruise was from the exercise bike.



Right now, I don't want to get into an extended conversation with Jersey Girl and I am pretty sure she doesn't want to get into an extended conversation with me.

You started with my name, but you in no way responded to my post. Did I miss something? Let me try again.
Lemmie, second attempt, wrote:I don't think it's derailing. I read Res Ipsa's and Jersey Girl's comments as suggesting that there are other options besides reporting Ron's statements as though every element was already a proven fact. Consequently, I was quite surprised when you jumped right to accusations that people think Ron is fabricating stuff.

There is a middle ground between complete blind faith and stating every word is a lie, and that is the ground occupied by thoughtful assessment of all statements, determining what has been proven fact and what statements need verification before arising to the level of fact.

There is no downside to asking for that type of post when people are giving information about an ongoing event.
_Lemmie
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Lemmie »

Mary wrote:That's entirely possible RI (that the mother was covering for her husband). What's the best evidence you have that he hit her?

Again there is that middle ground you jump right over.

I read Rest Ipsa's post as noting that there was NOT enough evidence in Ron's statement to conclude he did NOT hit her. Two very different things.
_Mary
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Mary »

Lemmie, Look, at the centre of all this, whether Ron is an asshole or not, whether he is always reliable or only sometimes reliable. Whether he is out for personal revenge or is fighting for his daughter, or a combination of the both,....did Micklesen abuse his daughter and what can he realistically do about it other than what he is doing? Because in my opinion this case would not stand up well in court. K would be annihilated and I would think Ron knows it. But that doesn't mean Micklesen is innocent.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Lemmie
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Lemmie »

Mary wrote:Lemmie, Look, at the centre of all this, whether Ron is an asshole or not, whether he is always reliable or only sometimes reliable. Whether he is out for personal revenge or is fighting for his daughter, or a combination of the both,....did Micklesen abuse his daughter and what can he realistically do about it other than what he is doing? Because in my opinion this case would not stand up well in court. K would be annihilated and I would think Ron knows it. But that doesn't mean Micklesen is innocent.

Before I answer, sorry, but just clarify, Mickelson I know, Ron is Ron, but K is ....daughter? or ex-wife? which initial is for the other? again sorry, long thread!!!!
Eta: see next post
Last edited by Guest on Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Lemmie
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Lemmie »

Lemmie wrote:
Mary wrote:Lemmie, Look, at the centre of all this, whether Ron is an asshole or not, whether he is always reliable or only sometimes reliable. Whether he is out for personal revenge or is fighting for his daughter, or a combination of the both,....did Micklesen abuse his daughter and what can he realistically do about it other than what he is doing? Because in my opinion this case would not stand up well in court. K would be annihilated and I would think Ron knows it. But that doesn't mean Micklesen is innocent.

Before I answer, sorry, but just clarify, Mickelson I know, Ron is Ron, but K is ....daughter? or ex-wife? which initial is for the other? again sorry, long thread!!!!

Just figured it out by reading back. J is ex-wife, K is daughter. Correct?
_Mary
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Mary »

Yeah. K is daughter. J is ex wife. I guess in respect of the privacy of the boys we should use Q and MK.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
_Lemmie
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Re: Mickelson Case: GA coverup cont.,

Post by _Lemmie »

Mary wrote:Lemmie, Look, at the centre of all this, whether Ron is an asshole or not, whether he is always reliable or only sometimes reliable. Whether he is out for personal revenge or is fighting for his daughter, or a combination of the both,....did Micklesen abuse his daughter and what can he realistically do about it other than what he is doing? Because in my opinion this case would not stand up well in court. K would be annihilated and I would think Ron knows it. But that doesn't mean Micklesen is innocent.

Assuming this went to court, why do you think K would be annihilated? What would make her not credible?
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