Mormon Church, wrong again re masturbation

[_asbestosman]

I don't consider masturbation a sin or an embarassment and it concerns me when others do.

I can understand people who think there's nothing wrong with it. It's obviously natural since other primates do it too (and I doubt it's Satan who's tempting them either--just good ol' mother nature). For me, though, it's almost a matter of pride. Even if it's fine to eat chocolate, would I be strong enough to abstain? There's nothing wrong with eating a bit of chocolate now and then, but I would personally be embarassed if I had to have some every day/week/month. Maybe it sholdn't be something to be ashamed of, but for me personally it is embarassing when I'm not stronger than my body's urges, especially when there is no immanent death involved as there is if I starve myself for a week. A slighty shorter lifespan isn't the same thing.

As for the sin issue, well, drinking coffee is a sin but I see nothing inherently wrong with coffee--no more than eating a bag of chips or an ice-cream fudge sundae.

[_asbestosman]

I must have missed where someone mentioned a number, other than when beastie said it needed to be more than five times a week. Even if someone did, it's still not the same as going into the "hows" of the act.

Yes, it was the article combined with the mention of how you're happy to be healthy. It may not be the same as the hows, but it still seems like TMI.

Are you stuck in condemnation mode, or are you able to examine why this topic seems to make you so uncomfortable? And before you give the common knee-jerk reaction, it's a cop out to say god/Bible/church/faith/prophet told me it's wrong, because you aren't providing an answer that you've actually taken the time to think through yourself. It's one thing to believe it; it's another to understand why.

Self-control is a point of pride for myself. Maybe it's unhealthy for it to be so, but it is so nonetheless.

TMI is the other issue.

[_Mercury]

I don't consider masturbation a sin or an embarassment and it concerns me when others do.

I can understand people who think there's nothing wrong with it. It's obviously natural since other primates do it too (and I doubt it's Satan who's tempting them either--just good ol' mother nature). For me, though, it's almost a matter of pride. Even if it's fine to eat chocolate, would I be strong enough to abstain? There's nothing wrong with eating a bit of chocolate now and then, but I would personally be embarassed if I had to have some every day/week/month. Maybe it sholdn't be something to be ashamed of, but for me personally it is embarassing when I'm not stronger than my body's urges, especially when there is no immanent death involved as there is if I starve myself for a week. A slighty shorter lifespan isn't the same thing.

As for the sin issue, well, drinking coffee is a sin but I see nothing inherently wrong with coffee--no more than eating a bag of chips or an ice-cream fudge sundae.

So you are saying that if you need to sneeze, abstaining from sneezing makes you a better person? Your explanation seems to be a bit of a backpedal, ABM

[_asbestosman]

So you are saying that if you need to sneeze, abstaining from sneezing makes you a better person?

No. I'm saying I value my own ability to exercise self-control especially when it's hard to do. Has nothing to do with who's a better person.

Your explanation seems to be a bit of a backpedal, ABM

So what was my position before my "backpedal"?

I still believe in being faithful to my beliefs. I still think it's embarassing to give out TMI. I still think it's strange that you find masturbation to be a subject worthy of using to deride others while yet telling us that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

[_Some Schmo]

Self-control is a point of pride for myself. Maybe it's unhealthy for it to be so, but it is so nonetheless.

That's actually a better answer than I was expecting, but it doesn't exactly explain why you choose to exercise this particular brand of self-control. It's really quite arbitrary. Going without masturbation is like going without, say, mini-golf even though you like it. Both involve a little exercise, and there's nothing wrong with that. What would be the point? Obviously, there's another component to your self-denial, and dare I say it, it's an irrational one.

And self-control doesn't necessarily entail complete abstinence. I mean, I certainly don't whip it out the moment the urge strikes me. There's an appropriate time and a place. I have to exercise some self-control to wait for that time and place. It's like having sex with a partner; there's a rational reason why one should exercise self-control and not jump every attractive person of the opposite sex they see. It's entirely irrational to avoid sex completely.

I think this complete abstinence idea is closely related to your TMI comments. I think it would truly serve you well to examine your thoughts on this subject, because it strikes me as very unhealthy.

Incidentally, chalk up the issue of masturbation as another in a long list of potentially dangerous things about religion (the ones that make you feel guilty about it, anyway).

[_Trevor]

If it's so terrible to admit it, why do church leaders ask about it in TR interviews?

I think I can answer that. It is all about power. You are required to reveal something that is pitched to you as shameful. You come before the authorities riddled with guilt, and they relieve you of this burden that they essentially created. What better way to establish who is in control?

[_silentkid]

As for the sin issue, well, drinking coffee is a sin but I see nothing inherently wrong with coffee--no more than eating a bag of chips or an ice-cream fudge sundae.

I think this is interesting. You find nothing inherently wrong with masturbation or with drinking coffee, but you still consider them sins. Why? What is your definition of sin? I see the LDS restrictions on these activities as obsolete cultural ideas based on the thoughts of a few men and passed down through generations as a way to restrict behavior, nothing more. If there is nothing wrong in drinking coffee, why is it a sin? Why should anyone claim obedience to a principle that has no inherent value/benefit. I obey because I obey. Abstinence, in this case, is without value. Sure, you can have pride in your ability to abstain, but what did President Benson say about pride? Something about enmity if I remember correctly. ;)

[_Some Schmo]

If it's so terrible to admit it, why do church leaders ask about it in TR interviews?

I think I can answer that. It is all about power. You are required to reveal something that is pitched to you as shameful. You come before the authorities riddled with guilt, and they relieve you of this burden that they essentially created. What better way to establish who is in control?

Yes, that's definitely the correct answer. I completely agree.

I was curious as to how abman would respond to it in light of his reaction to this thread, however.

[_Some Schmo]

Sure, you can have pride in your ability to abstain, but what did President Benson say about pride? Something about enmity if I remember correctly. ;)

This is an excellent point. Abman, where's your self-control regarding your sense of pride? As I remember, pride is one of the seven deadly sins. Masturbation was supposed to only to affect your eyesight and abnormal hair growth patterns on the palms of your hands, but it was never deadly.

[_asbestosman]

Sure, you can have pride in your ability to abstain, but what did President Benson say about pride? Something about enmity if I remember correctly. ;)

This is an excellent point. Abman, where's your self-control regarding your sense of pride?

Would it be better if I replace pride with value?

The problem with pride isn't in valuing something you have or are, but rather in valuing yourself above others or otherwise belittling others. The other problem with pride is thinking that you don't need God (or other people) or forgetting what God (or others) has (have) done in your life.