Question for Atheists: Abortion

[_Analytics]

Quite strange how you've gone full circle and now accuse the pro-choice side of being anti-choice.

Just because you would force a woman to have an unwanted baby when she'd choose an abortion doesn't mean that I would force a woman to have an abortion when she'd choose to have a child she can't provide for.

You plainly implied in your previous post that a couple that could not afford a baby should not have a right to have the baby. Now you deny it. Thanks for the clarification.

No, I said that people who can't afford to have kids shouldn't have them.

Likewise, I believe that people who can't tolerate milk shouldn't drink it. That doesn't mean I want to set up laws to infringe somebody's supposed right to lactose.

[_silentkid]

Yes, it is. But probably not as convenient as creating a straw man that God actively directs everything like the Wizard of Oz and then knocking that straw man all apart.

The straw man. The elusive strawman. Manstraw. Capitan Straw. Oh, and throw in a Wizard of Oz reference to complete the metaphor while you're at it. Wait, you did. Congratulations. I approach this message board looking for discussion. If you'd like to discuss when you believe god intervenes and doesn't intervene during the biological processes that lead to the formation of a human being, great. I see that as a crucial element of discussing the abortion issue. You claimed he intervenes, maybe even by natural means (how would you tell the difference, then). How do you know this? What are your evidences? If you want to play Professor Strawman Pants, leave me out of it.

[_TAK]

Yes, it is. But probably not as convenient as creating a straw man that God actively directs everything like the Wizard of Oz and then knocking that straw man all apart.

The straw man. The elusive strawman. Manstraw. Capitan Straw. Oh, and throw in a Wizard of Oz reference to complete the metaphor while you're at it. Wait, you did. Congratulations. I approach this message board looking for discussion. If you'd like to discuss when you believe god intervenes and doesn't intervene during the biological processes that lead to the formation of a human being, great. I see that as a crucial element of discussing the abortion issue. You claimed he intervenes, maybe even by natural means (how would you tell the difference, then). How do you know this? What are your evidences? If you want to play Professor Strawman Pants, leave me out of it.

Nice response Kid..

You must have scared him off as he ran back to MAD to discuss the topic reducing this converation as a bunch of atheist that "describe the fetus as weeds, insects, and boogers that need to be removed."

LOL..

[_dblagent007]

The straw man. The elusive strawman. Manstraw. Capitan Straw. Oh, and throw in a Wizard of Oz reference to complete the metaphor while you're at it. Wait, you did. Congratulations. I approach this message board looking for discussion. If you'd like to discuss when you believe god intervenes and doesn't intervene during the biological processes that lead to the formation of a human being, great. I see that as a crucial element of discussing the abortion issue. You claimed he intervenes, maybe even by natural means (how would you tell the difference, then). How do you know this? What are your evidences? If you want to play Professor Strawman Pants, leave me out of it.

Nice response Kid..

You must have scared him off as he ran back to MAD to discuss the topic reducing this converation as a bunch of atheist that "describe the fetus as weeds, insects, and boogers that need to be removed."

LOL..

LOL. Yeah, silentkid sent me running home crying. Amazingly, he did it before he even posted his salient response since, by that time, I had already posted the topic on MAD. And who says only believers believe in magic?

In case you might be wondering why I posted the topic on MAD, I did it because I wanted to expand the pool of atheists to see if others really believed the stuff posted in this thread.

[_Doctor Steuss]

Not to step into Shock’s conversation – but might you wonder that if in some areas of the world if there were fewer people competing for resources the rest might have a better life or at least a chance at a better life?

I had a rather long response typed up, then I realized that I was bringing my emotions/feelings into the conversation. I am going to bow out of this one until I can come back to it free from the baggage.

by the way, I do think you ask a valid hypothetical/question; one that I will hopefully be able to come back to.

[_dblagent007]

Yes, it is. But probably not as convenient as creating a straw man that God actively directs everything like the Wizard of Oz and then knocking that straw man all apart.

The straw man. The elusive strawman. Manstraw. Capitan Straw. Oh, and throw in a Wizard of Oz reference to complete the metaphor while you're at it. Wait, you did. Congratulations. I approach this message board looking for discussion. If you'd like to discuss when you believe god intervenes and doesn't intervene during the biological processes that lead to the formation of a human being, great.

Taking the high road now, are we? I guess your glib response to my understanding of how God operates is simply a distant memory by now.

I see that as a crucial element of discussing the abortion issue.

Why?

You claimed he intervenes, maybe even by natural means (how would you tell the difference, then). How do you know this? What are your evidences?

The answer to this, why a believer believes, really goes far beyond the topic of this thread. Besides, I think this has been thoroughly hashed out already.

[_dblagent007]

No, I said that people who can't afford to have kids shouldn't have them.

Likewise, I believe that people who can't tolerate milk shouldn't drink it. That doesn't mean I want to set up laws to infringe somebody's supposed right to lactose.

Okay, fair enough.

[_dblagent007]

Not to step into Shock’s conversation – but might you wonder that if in some areas of the world if there were fewer people competing for resources the rest might have a better life or at least a chance at a better life?

This raises a whole host of issues. However, it seems that technological advances are the largest driver of increased quality of life. Most places worldwide that suffer a low quality of life have been or are being hindered in embracing technological advances due to government (communism, despots, etc.).

Population increase drives many economies. Places like Russia and Italy recognize that very low or declining population growth is damaging to the economy.

For these reasons, I am not sure that we would actually be better off with fewer people. We certainly would be better off, speaking globally, if certain governments were replaced.

[_silentkid]

Taking the high road now, are we? I guess your glib response to my understanding of how God operates is simply a distant memory by now.

You said that god operates by a) letting things run their natural course and b) intervening, sometimes by natural means. Or something like that. My response (while glib, I'll give you that...I do get tired of indefensible god of the gaps arguments) pointed out why I thought your position was weak. I apologize for being glib.

Why?

I discussed why in my last few posts on this topic.

The answer to this, why a believer believes, really goes far beyond the topic of this thread. Besides, I think this has been thoroughly hashed out already.

Yep. I'm not really interested in discussing why a believer believes, either. I would like to discuss how you know that god is intervening in a natural process if he does so by implementing natural means. In other words, if a fetus is miscarried (i.e. aborted naturally), how do you know if god did it or if it was a natural way for the body to discard a problematic embryo?

[_GoodK]

Wow. What an ugly thread this has been. Dart, have you been watching more T.V than usual lately? Have you been getting at least 8 hours of sleep? Have you decided to take up huffing recently? How many threads have you started now about Sarah Palin, by the way? Does your wall have hundreds of newspaper and magazine clippings of Palin's face pinned to it? Paste any pictures of your face over Mr. Palin's? Have you erected a shrine in your basement yet? Accidentally call the old lady "Sarah" a few times?

Unfortunately, all this nonsense about morality is a sham. I'm calling shenanigans.

Christians use morals to suit their agenda. Christian morality is nothing but a club to beat sinners and "outsiders" with.

You're all for telling people what to do with their lives and forcing them to have a child they don't want, or can't afford -- but god forbid a socialist black guy get elected president and actually does something to take care of the less fortunate. Jesus apparently is a republican capitalist who hates people on welfare.

Despite Dart claiming how monumental his latest Sarah-stalking thread is to the understanding of atheism and morality, all you have to do is look at what Christians focus on politically. It's not the suffering of already born children in this country. Or the poor. They focus on whether or not complete strangers are aborting their pregnancies. That and discriminating against homosexual couples, that never gets old. How many people could have been fed with the money that was raised for Prop. 8 in California? Jesus is probably turning in his ossuarie right now. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm with SUAS, this is a stupid thread.