Postponing Having Children

[_Jason Bourne]

Well it might be a ward to ward thing and stake to stake thing.

I know when I was YM pres and a bishop and involved in anything with a budget what was spent on YM and YW was pretty equal. Plus we did fund raising for both scouts and YW camp and I would let them use the excess for other stuff.

Interesting side note. When I was bishop on the off stake year for a big joint activity I tried and tried to get the YW leaders and girls to plan and take some sort of "high adventure" trip. It could be something fun or cultural or whatever. We are close enough to some major cool cities and I suggested taking three or four days to visit one of these and see sites and museums and historical sites. They never took me up on it.

[_Yoda]

Well it might be a ward to ward thing and stake to stake thing.

I know when I was YM pres and a bishop and involved in anything with a budget what was spent on YM and YW was pretty equal. Plus we did fund raising for both scouts and YW camp and I would let them use the excess for other stuff.

Interesting side note. When I was bishop on the off stake year for a big joint activity I tried and tried to get the YW leaders and girls to plan and take some sort of "high adventure" trip. It could be something fun or cultural or whatever. We are close enough to some major cool cities and I suggested taking three or four days to visit one of these and see sites and museums and historical sites. They never took me up on it.

Jason,

You should run bishop training for the Church world-wide. If all bishops were like you, the Church would run the way it is supposed to.

[_Buffalo]

LDS Missions don't really prepare you for being a husband or father, but they DO prepare you for a career. On a mission you learn that numbers matter more than results, and that those who inflate their numbers the most get promoted fastest. A valuable lesson.

[_Buffalo]

I'm a married, never divorced, returned missionary. My family is out of the church and happier now. You would label me "anti-Mormon", but I'm cool with that. I'm living the impossible dream.

I am sure that they are. Being out of the LDS church one is certainly more free to choose a lifestyle more freely. However, the LDS church has given your family a good foundation to be a family. And I am sure that you still follow LDS cultural family norms. What people out of the church don't seem to realize is: the church gave them a wonderful family foundation. It matters little if they are now out of it. You certainly don't advise your children to eat drink and be merry for tomorrow may never come. Nor do you advise them to sow their wild oats now before they get tied down.

My guess is that you still teach Mormon family values.

And similarly, whenever an ex-Mormon does something wrong, that's also due to his LDS foundation.

[_Buffalo]

As for not postponing children...There is a lot of social pressure in the LDS church to get pregnant right away.

There are ladies at church who literally ASK you when you are going to get pregnant/have a baby! It is so, so horrible!

I have friends who were told by closer members (like close friends, family) that they were wicked for not trying to conceive right away.

Luckily, I was not. I was 18 when I got married so people didn't really ask...that I can remember. Actually, they probably did but I felt good about my decision to not have a baby until I was no longer a teenager and told people as much.

However, as soon as my oldest was about 1 or 2 I started getting asked ALL the time when we were going to have another one. This was painful since I was actually trying and unable to for several years.

The church needs to stick its nose out of its members reproductive choices. The church has the position that everyone should become a parent and that is just as far from the truth as you can get. Not everyone should have one kid, let alone 4 or 5 or 6. This, along with teaching that God won't give you more than you can handle, can have catastrophic personal consequences.

Yup. It's no one's business but the couple's. The only reason the church has made an issue out of having kids right away is because they know that it's the only way they can have any kind of growth at all.

For couples who can't conceive, the constant questions are VERY hurtful. And annoying for the rest of us.

Shouldn't our example be Joseph Smith, in this matter? After all, he obviously used some sort of birth control with his plural wives. What's good for the goose...

[_Themis]

Interesting stuff and I think many of your observations as a bishop were similar to mine. Though I did know a number of men who had been divorced and were remarried and were quite active and solid. My two counselors were such and they were some of the finest and best LDS men I knew. But perhaps it is the man that is divorced and remains single that struggles.

One thing I find discouraging is a divorce can often block certain leadeship callings and I think that is sad. My 1st counselor would be a fine bishop and I believe one of the reasons he has not been called is because of his divorce. And he was almost totally the victim in his divorce. His ex wife cheated on him multiple times. Even with that he wanted to stay with her and forgive her but she wanted out.

While I do think many divorced men who are single for a time after do struggle, and certainly some do go inactive, I think Bob is trying to suggest that the divorced population here is made up mostly of these men who got divorced and then left the church. My expereince here suggests that most divorces happened after change of belief which is also easy to understand why many women will divorce a non-believing husband(not good reasons though).

Also Men do have a drive for power and influence. More of it usually means better odds of survival and sexual access to females. Joseph Smith is a classic example of this. I do think women have their drives, but it seems more geared around children and their spouse. I see many women in the church concerned very much about appearance not just of themselves but very much about their children and spouse.

[_Themis]

I am sure that they are. Being out of the LDS church one is certainly more free to choose a lifestyle more freely. However, the LDS church has given your family a good foundation to be a family. And I am sure that you still follow LDS cultural family norms. What people out of the church don't seem to realize is: the church gave them a wonderful family foundation. It matters little if they are now out of it.

I do agree that the church can provide some healthy benefits to it's members. If not I doubt it would still exist. What i don't see is any benefits that are unique to the church, and without the church one could not get them. Could you provide any?

You certainly don't advise your children to eat drink and be merry for tomorrow may never come. Nor do you advise them to sow their wild oats now before they get tied down.

I don't really know many groups or parents who do advise their children this way.

My guess is that you still teach Mormon family values.

There is no such thing, since any family value in the church is not unique to it. I would suspect he does teach them somewhat differently.

[_Brackite]

Why aren't the high up brethren seeming that much concern about how horrible the economy is right now around them? The State of California has an Unemployment rate of 12.1%. The State of Nevada has an Unemployment rate as high as 13.4%. And a lot People are still losing their homes left and right in Nevada and in California. It is very hard in this day of age for a lot of young couples to start a family. The Church has a lot of members in Nevada and California. Yet, the high up brethren don't seem that concern about the horrible economy around them.