It's Official - Stand and Shout the Gays are Out (link)

[_Shulem]

Your powers of discernment are certainly no better than that of the First Presidency and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve. That so-called discernment is nothing but touted pride. That has been proven, my little gay friend -- as per below:

Let's see what we have thus far in lieu of civil, critical argument. I'm a closeted homosexual. bc is a closeted homosexual. Life is a cabaret.

Its all so simple when you really determine to cease the admittedly arduous task of thinking and descend into self absorbed debauchery and live in a emotional vortex of self delusion.

Really, all so simple.

Don't forget about the First Presidency and members of the Quorum of the Twelve being duped. And Facsimile No. 3 dupes you, Droopy. You and President Kimball are both jokes!

Paul O

[_Runtu]

I hope your not so naïve as to think everyone who is gay starts having gay interests and desire from day one, because you would be sadly mistaken.

Did I say that anywhere? Ever?

What I meant is that, as a 50 year old man, Paul suppressed his sexual desire for many years, and I am wondering if he notes any detrimental effects of having done so. I have no idea at what age his attraction to men manifested itself, and I frankly don't care, as it's irrelevant.

[_WheatThins]

What I meant is that, as a 50 year old man, Paul suppressed his sexual desire for many years, and I am wondering if he notes any detrimental effects of having done so. I have no idea at what age his attraction to men manifested itself, and I frankly don't care, as it's irrelevant.

Just checking the reflexes and all, carry on then.

[_Runtu]

Here's some actual scholarly work supporting the "lie" that being marginalized by society affects sexual behavior, specifically promiscuity:

Low self-esteem ranks among the strongest predictors of emotional and behavioral problems. Compared to people with high self-esteem, people with low self-esteem tend to be more anxious, depressed, lonely, jealous, shy, and generally unhappy. They are also less assertive, less likely to enjoy close friendships, and more likely to drop out of school. Furthermore, they are more inclined to behave in ways that pose a danger to themselves or others: low self-esteem is associated with unsafe sex, teenage pregnancy, aggression, criminal behavior, the abuse of alcohol and other drugs, and membership in deviant groups.

The article also mentions low self-esteem being related to "irresponsible sexual behavior," including promiscuity. ("The Role of Low Self-Esteem in Emotional and Behavioral Problems," Mark Leary, Lisa Schreindorfer, Alison Haupt, Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology 14:3, 1995).

And here's an article showing a correlation between low self-esteem among homosexuals and the negative views of the broader culture:

"Qualitative data from open-ended interviews with 76 African American men (aged 18–29 years) who have sex with men were used to examine the relationship among negative attitudes toward homosexuality, self-esteem, and risk for HIV. Respondents perceived members of their communities as holding negative attitudes toward homosexuality, and many thought the African American community was less accepting of homosexuality than the white community. There was evidence that these negative attitudes are internalized by some of the young African American men themselves. Respondents mentioned several ways that negative attitudes toward homosexuality could lead to lower self-esteem and psychological distress in young gay and bisexual men. In addition, respondents articulated several mechanisms by which low self-esteem and psychological distress might be associated with sexual behaviors that put one at risk for HIV. It is concluded that addressing and changing society's negative views of homosexuality are important components of a comprehensive approach to reducing the transmission of HIV, especially among young people in communities of color. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)." (Homophobia, self-esteem, and risk for HIV among African American men who have sex with men.
Stokes, Joseph P.;Peterson, John L. AIDS Education and Prevention, Vol 10(3), Jun 1998, 278-292.)

Note that negative attitudes are associated with low self-esteem, which may be "associated with sexual behaviors that put one at risk for HIV."

[_Shulem]

Its called life lived, experience, observation, and a great deal of reading.

And all this makes you an expert on my sexual orientation and what turns me on?

Go jump in the lake, Droopy. You haven't a clue what turns me on and what gives me a rise. I'll gladly pass up on 100 beautiful women and let you have them all. I'm not interested in women. So, don't try and force them on me. I like guys. That's what excites me. That's what gives me a rise. That's what makes my pupils get large and my breathing increases rapidly, naturally -- wonderfully. Do you know anything about this kind of bodily function?

Paul O

[_Shulem]

The only thing I would ever condemn was his behavior.

Why is it that certain guys make my pupils get large, my breathing increases, and I get an erection but girls can't do that for me?

Guys make me excited and full of attraction, mystery, wonder, pleasure, excitement, love, and so forth. I'm afraid, Droopy, I have a testimony of my sexual orientation. Do you?

Paul O

[_Shulem]

Perhaps you can clear something up, Paul. Would you say that repressing your sexual desires for close to 50 years had any detrimental effects on you, sexually or otherwise? According to Droopy, you would be the same "debauched" person had you never tried to deny your same-sex attraction.

If this is too personal, I'm sorry.

Repressing my true sexual orientation for all those years was an utter nightmere. It's kind of like being a teenager but never being able to touch yourself (masterbate) for say, 40 years even though all you want to do is touch yourself more than anything in all the world. It's hell. Mormonism is a very damaging religion when it comes to sexual matters. Mormonism has caused a great deal of harm to many people, including myself.

There is nothing Droopy or bcspace can say to change my reality or the way I think. They might as well hold a gun up to my head and blow my brains out. I won't deny what I know to be true. I would die before denying myself for who I am. Never again.

Paul O

[_Runtu]

Repressing my true sexual orientation for all those years was an utter nightmere. It's kind of like being a teenager but never being able to touch yourself (masturbate) for say, 40 years even though all you want to do is touch yourself more than anything in all the world. It's hell. Mormonism is a very damaging religion when it comes to sexual matters. Mormonism has caused a great deal of harm to many people, including myself.

There is nothing Droopy or bcspace can say to change my reality or the way I think. They might as well hold a gun up to my head and blow my brains out. I won't deny what I know to be true. I would die before denying myself for who I am. Never again.

Paul O

That's the most destructive part, isn't it? They want people to suppress a big part of what makes them who they are, and they expect that they'll suffer no adverse effects for that suppression. Total BS.

[_Shulem]

That's the most destructive part, isn't it? They want people to suppress a big part of what makes them who they are, and they expect that they'll suffer no adverse effects for that suppression. Total b***s***.

I denied myself for a long time in order to please God, religion, family, and so forth. I married a beautiful and intelligent woman and had three children. My wife divorced me after 20 years of marriage but we remain friends to this day. She let me go. She knew it was the right thing to do as she fell in love with another man that could provide for her what she really needed. I couldn't give my wife those things she needed to sustain her and cause her to flourish. She needed to grow and live, to become the woman she was born to be. I was holding her back. She was holding me back. It was a dead end.

It's all for the best. Now I am fulfilling myself and experiencing new highs and delights. Life is good.

Paul O

[_subgenius]

So, a goat is a consenting adult? A bus full of disgusted strangers are consenting adults?

You have the IQ of a non-consenting goat.

i feel bad that you are not witty.
the actual sex act is by a consenting adult(s)....the people on the bus may be disgusted, but they are not being harmed...ergo Tarski is ok with that, even an advocate of it.
i also feel bad at how hard you try to prove yourself