Urgent! Questions for Brian Hales

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_consiglieri
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Re: Urgent! Questions for Brian Hales

Post by _consiglieri »

Bret Ripley wrote:
why me wrote:Not to befussy but can you show me the source and the full quotation? Reading this is like reading a heavily edited piece of work.
Kimball did write those words, but an editor has combined quotes from two sources. The first part is from a letter Helen wrote to her children which was opened after her death:
Just previous to my father’s starting upon his last mission but one, to the Eastern States, he taught me the principle of Celestial marriage, & having a great desire to be connected with the Prophet, Joseph, he offered me to him; this I afterwards learned from the Prophet’s own mouth. My father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the alter: how cruel this seamed to the mother whose heartstrings were already stretched untill they were ready to snap asunder, for he had taken Sarah Noon to wife & she thought she had made sufficient sacrafise, but the Lord required more. I will pass over the temptations which I had during the twenty four hours after my father introduced to me this principle & asked me if I would be sealed to Joseph, who came next morning & with my parents I heard him teach & explain the principle of Celestial marrage-after which he said to me, “If you will take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation and exaltation & that of your father’s household & all of your kindred.

This promise was so great that I willingly gave myself to purchase so glorious a reward. None but God & his angels could see my mother’s bleeding heart—when Joseph asked her if she was willing, she replied “If Helen is willing I have nothing more to say.” She had witnessed the sufferings of others, who were older & who better understood the step they were taking, & to see her child, who had scarcely seen her fifteenth summer, following in the same thorny path, in her mind she saw the misery which was as sure to come as the sun was to rise and set; but it was all hidden from me.
The second part is from Helen Mar Kimball's "Scenes and Incidents in Nauvoo":
During the winter of 1843, there were plenty of parties and balls, and many were held at the mansion. The last one that I attended there that winter was on Christmas Eve. Some of the young gentlemen got up a series of dancing parties to be held at the mansion once a week. My brother William put his name down before asking father's permission, and when questioned about it made him believe that he must pay the money for himself and the lady, whether he went or not, and that he could not honorably withdraw from it. He carried the day, but I had to stay at home, as my father had been warned by the Prophet to keep his daughter away from there, because of the blacklegs and certain ones of questionable character who attended there. His wife Emma had become the ruling spirit and money had become her God. I did not betray William, but I felt quite sore over it, and thought it a very unkind act in father to allow him to go and enjoy the dance unrestrained with others of my companions, and fetter me down, for no girl loved dancing better than I did and I really felt that it was too much to bear. It made the dull school still more dull and like a wild bird, I longed for the freedom that was denied me; and thought myself a much abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did murmur. I imagined that my happiness was all over and brooded over the sad memories of sweet departed joys and all manner of future woes, which (by the by) were of short duration, my bump of hope being too large to admit of my remaining long under the clouds. Besides my father was very kind and indulgent in other ways, and always took me with him when mother could not go, and it was not a very long time before I became satisfied that I was blessed in being under the control of so good and wise a parent who had taken counsel and thus saved me from evils, which some others in their youth and inexperience were exposed to though they thought no evil. Yet the busy tongue of scandal did not spare them.



Thanks for the quotes, Bret.

It appears liberties were taken with their splicing.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Bret Ripley
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Re: Urgent! Questions for Brian Hales

Post by _Bret Ripley »

consiglieri wrote:Thanks for the quotes, Bret.

It appears liberties were taken with their splicing.
As uncomfortable as it makes me to appear to be supporting something whyme wrote, I have to agree. It's just that when it comes to citing historical sources I prefer to "hew to the line, let the chips fall where they may".

It's a stretch, but I suppose some case could be made to justify duct-taping the "abused child" statement onto the other citation since her father prevented her from attending the dance at the Prophet's instruction. But to splice the two sources without clarifying context just isn't cricket.
_Joe Geisner
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Re: Urgent! Questions for Brian Hales

Post by _Joe Geisner »

liz3564 wrote:Where is it documented that Fanny's parents were proud of her sealing to Joseph Smith?


Liz,

In my search of the sources, I could only find one place (Wife No. 19) that suggested the parents were "proud" (the source says honored) that Fanny was "adopted" into the Smith family. Anna Eliza then writes that "her mother has always claimed that she was sealed to Joseph." To be honest Liz, I have no idea what this means, if you read the two pages, it is clear Anna Eliza has lots of the story confused. Anna Eliza was not born til seven years after the events she is writing about.

I would be weary of putting too much stock in this account. I would trust Anna Eliza much more about her descriptions of her marriage to Young, at least she was there when the events happened.

See Wife No. 19 pages 66-67 on google books.
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