Mormons try to proxy baptise even more Jews...

[_Res Ipsa]

Thanks, Jersey Girl.

[_Jersey Girl]

The church could put out a call for volunteers for that.

Just like the websites invite even non-members to help with the indexing work. They could put out a call for members to do the oversight work.

They could contract it out and cough up the goddamn cash. Take the money from the game preserves for rich fat dudes. Hell, the cost of Wendy Nelson's hair dye alone could cover it.

Why pay for it when there are tons of hobbyist genealogists like me all over the world who would love to do the non-member type work and LDS members who would also enjoy the contribution?

[_Jersey Girl]

Thanks, Jersey Girl.

Think like a criminal Jersey Girl, RI.

[_Jersey Girl]

And what is that thing folks use to disguise themselves online...sock puppets and such? Something that conceals your ISP or whatever. I bet someone could do that on the website.

[_Res Ipsa]

Thanks, Jersey Girl.

Think like a criminal Jersey Girl, RI.

Well, I am a lawyer. That's pretty close...

[_Lemmie]

So, let me see if I understand this correctly. Non-LDS users of family search can put their genealogy on the site. LDS users can submit those names for proxy ordinances, as long as they cross their fingers and click a check box. Is that right? Moin Moin seems to be saying that, if he signs in as an LDS u;ser, he can't submit names of random people. But could an LDS user submit information without logging in as LDS, then log in as LDS and submit those names for ordinances? If so, I can totally picture a few zealous LDS members who submit the genealogical information based on reports of deaths in newspapers without logging in as LDS, then log in and submit the names for ordinances. That sounds much more plausible than a diabolical scheme to embarrass the church. Hamlin's razor and all that.

indeed. As Tom pointed out:

The same user apparently submitted the names of all 17 victims, including the names of five Jewish; victims, to the Family Tree database. (I looked up the names of all 17 victims in the Family Tree database and found the same user name credited.) The church could easily shut down the user's account.

And from MD&D, a first hand account of the next step:

When we were trying to do the work for my hubby's grandpa we had to 'testify' (for lack of a better word) that we had his mother's permission to do the work. We also had to provide her contact information. However, it would have been really easy to lie about it and I don't know that they ever contacted her to ask if she had actually given permission.

and from clark goble, who, um... is related to Gauss?! (just kidding... ):

You can with permission submit names you aren't related to. My dad did all his as far back as possible and then from those ancestors as far forward as possible. So he got permission to start doing the work for various family friends who had passed along more than 50 years ago. (None Jewish) He's actually been doing the work for most of a small town on the border of Alberta / Montana (now sadly a ghost town due to increased security due to 9/11).

Back in the 90's things were much more open. I'd submitted and done the temple work for a slew of relatives. (For several years all the names at the Cardston Temple were names my dad and I had submitted) I'd then actually gone through and collected a lot of scientists names who were more obscure (to most people) but had clearly strived to discover the truth of religion. Gauss in particular sticks with me. I'd submitted his name and vaguely recall doing some of the work for him, although I might be mistaken on that....

[_Fence Sitter]

And that folks is how one figures out glitches in a program.

As an interesting side note to nobody but me, in one online game we played years ago called Connan, we found so many glitches in the game that the programmers were contacting us to ask us what was broken and how we were getting around things.

I had one son who figured out how to break into future expansion areas that were not open to the rest of the players.

One does not have to hack into code to be able to make a program do something not intended, you just have to find an approach the programmers did not anticipate.

[_Lemmie]

And that folks is how one figures out glitches in a program.

As an interesting side note to nobody but me, in one online game we played years ago called Connan, we found so many glitches in the game that the programmers were contacting us to ask us what was broken and how we were getting around things.

I had one son who figured out how to break into future expansion areas that were not open to the rest of the players.

One does not have to hack into code to be able to make a program do something not intended, you just have to find an approach the programmers did not anticipate.

[bold added]
Well said. I've appreciated your comments all throughout the thread as I have a son who sounds a lot like your son!

[_I have a question]

The same user apparently submitted the names of all 17 victims, including the names of five Jewish victims, to the Family Tree database. (I looked up the names of all 17 victims in the Family Tree database and found the same user name credited.) The church could easily shut down the user's account.

So, not exactly the work of a criminal genius or master hacker. A member (and the Church knows who that is) simply submitted them and then Radkey, presumably expecting a member to submit these names (because some member somewhere will always submit them) goes onto Family Search and sees them, reports them.

Moinmoin, the problem here isn’t Radkey, and the solution isn’t - devise a way to keep Radkey from finding out about the submissions.

It would have been interesting if Radkey had kept her powder dry and waited the year, to see if the Church’s system of check box scrutiny had prevented ordinances being done for them.

[_Stem]

One can put in a name of someone, date their death a year earlier, tie them into your tree, easily with descendants, and then submit the name. There's no special, tricky hacking that needs to take place for this to happen. When the notice comes up that says you must have permission and be able to submit proof of permission if asked, you can check that with a yes, and move on. But, with that said, if names are submitted that way, the system should be able to show precisely who did it. The Church should go back to that person, or find out who made that account (you have to have a special LDS ID number, given to members to create it) and investigate from there.

The system is built to not allow names submitted until after a year after they die. But there's nothing to stop someone from entering in false a death date.