The First Feebles

[MG 2.0]

Not everyone receives an answer that 'official revelation' is always right in every instance. They may even have a stupor of thought and be confused. I would imagine it happens more often than you might think.

Regards,
MG

I seem to remember a lot of people experiencing a "stupor of thought" with the November 2015 policy - as in wondering how the church could issue such a cruel statement. I know that it broke some people's testimonies, and that the following attempts to explain, and subsequent revisions, only made things worse.

An how could it not? How was it possible that:
1. Mormon god was so cruel and heartless
2. He couldn't say clearly what he mane the first time
3. He didn't mean what he said the first time
4. He had to walk back parts of it a couple of years later?

I thought that Elder Christofferson's part in the whole fiasco was abominable.

One could multiply the examples of a "heartless God" and/or where 'wires got crossed' expotentially across the history of Christianity and the Restoration. Where do you draw that line between belief and doubt as you accumulate all the evidence that seems to support your position?

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

I seem to remember a lot of people experiencing a "stupor of thought" with the November 2015 policy - as in wondering how the church could issue such a cruel statement. I know that it broke some people's testimonies, and that the following attempts to explain, and subsequent revisions, only made things worse.

An how could it not? How was it possible that:
1. Mormon god was so cruel and heartless
2. He couldn't say clearly what he mane the first time
3. He didn't mean what he said the first time
4. He had to walk back parts of it a couple of years later?

I thought that Elder Christofferson's part in the whole fiasco was abominable.

One could multiply the examples of a "heartless God" and/or where 'wires got crossed' expotentially across the history of Christianity and the Restoration. Where do you draw that line between belief and doubt as you accumulate all the evidence that seems to support your position?

Regards,
MG

Nowhere. I'm not accumulating evidence to support my position.

[sock puppet]

I seem to remember a lot of people experiencing a "stupor of thought" with the November 2015 policy - as in wondering how the church could issue such a cruel statement. I know that it broke some people's testimonies, and that the following attempts to explain, and subsequent revisions, only made things worse.

An how could it not? How was it possible that:
1. Mormon god was so cruel and heartless
2. He couldn't say clearly what he mane the first time
3. He didn't mean what he said the first time
4. He had to walk back parts of it a couple of years later?

I thought that Elder Christofferson's part in the whole fiasco was abominable.

Maybe for Oaks, that's how DTC got his bona fides and now the 2d Counselor slot in the new First Feebs

[MG 2.0]

One could multiply the examples of a "heartless God" and/or where 'wires got crossed' expotentially across the history of Christianity and the Restoration. Where do you draw that line between belief and doubt as you accumulate all the evidence that seems to support your position?

Regards,
MG

Nowhere. I'm not accumulating evidence to support my position.

OK. I suppose if you're not accumulating evidence, then my question misses the mark.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Not everyone receives an answer that 'official revelation' is always right in every instance. They may even have a stupor of thought and be confused. I would imagine it happens more often than you might think.

Regards,
MG

I seem to remember a lot of people experiencing a "stupor of thought" with the November 2015 policy - as in wondering how the church could issue such a cruel statement. I know that it broke some people's testimonies, and that the following attempts to explain, and subsequent revisions, only made things worse.

An how could it not? How was it possible that:
1. Mormon god was so cruel and heartless
2. He couldn't say clearly what he mane the first time
3. He didn't mean what he said the first time
4. He had to walk back parts of it a couple of years later?

I thought that Elder Christofferson's part in the whole fiasco was abominable.

If I recall correctly, the first presidency were very clear that the November change was based on revelation, and part of LDS doctrine. It's hard to believe the Mormon concepts of 'revelation' and especially revealed 'doctrine' would be so easily overturned. Alternatively, fallible church leaders who got advice from their PR department that a 'revelation' was so badly received that they needed to rescind it makes much more sense.

[I Have Questions]

I seem to remember a lot of people experiencing a "stupor of thought" with the November 2015 policy - as in wondering how the church could issue such a cruel statement. I know that it broke some people's testimonies, and that the following attempts to explain, and subsequent revisions, only made things worse.

An how could it not? How was it possible that:
1. Mormon god was so cruel and heartless
2. He couldn't say clearly what he mane the first time
3. He didn't mean what he said the first time
4. He had to walk back parts of it a couple of years later?

I thought that Elder Christofferson's part in the whole fiasco was abominable.

If I recall correctly, the first presidency were very clear that the November change was based on revelation, and part of LDS doctrine. It's hard to believe the Mormon concepts of 'revelation' and especially revealed 'doctrine' would be so easily overturned. Alternatively, fallible church leaders who got advice from their PR department that a 'revelation' was so badly received that they needed to rescind it makes much more sense.

This prophetic process was followed … with the recent additions to the Church’s handbook, consequent to the legalization of same-sex marriage in some countries. Filled with compassion for all, and especially for the children, we wrestled at length to understand the Lord’s will in this matter. Ever mindful of God’s plan of salvation and of His hope for eternal life for each of His children, we considered countless permutations and combinations of possible scenarios that could arise. We met repeatedly in the temple in fasting and prayer and sought further direction and inspiration. And then, when the Lord inspired His prophet, President Thomas S. Monson, to declare the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord, each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation. It was our privilege as Apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson. Revelation from the Lord to His servants is a sacred process.

Becoming True Millennials, Elder Russell M. Nelson, Worldwide Devotional for Young Adults, January 10, 2016, BYU–Hawaii

And…

The policy was originally released and leaked on November 3, 2015. On April 4, 2019, the LDS Church reversed this policy. Less than 4 years after the policy of exclusion was deemed a revelation by senior church leaders, the policy was changed.

https://wasmormon.org/reversing-the-november-policy/

[Limnor]

They should write new revelations in the same majestic, soaring language as D&C 110 to give the impression that eternity has spoken.

Proposed rewrite, to capture the voice from the eternals— and yea verily, I did liken myself unto the scriptures through borrowing heavily from D&C 110:

- Behold, after much supplication, fasting, and prayer, the veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened, and lo! the Lord did appear upon the breastwork of the pulpit before us!

- We beheld the house filled with a pillar of light, and the glory thereof was like unto the morning when it breaketh upon the mountains!

- Under His feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber mingled with living fire. His eyes were as a flame of compassion; whose countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and His voice was as the sound of many waters, saying:

- Behold, I know the hearts of all My children, and My bowels are filled with mercy toward them.

- Verily, the laws of men shall change and the customs of nations shall turn as the wind, yet My law is constant, and My love faileth not. And ye can count on that to not change for at least the next few years.

- See that ye deal tenderly with all; lift up the hands that hang down, and strengthen the feeble knees of My mouthpiece.

- And it came to pass that while we heard these words, the Spirit of revelation rested upon the Prophet, even upon Thomas Spencer Monson, and his visage was transfigured before us.

- And the word of the Lord did come through him, declaring the mind and the will of Jehovah concerning His Church and His children in the latter days.

- And behold! Thomas did hold forth and utter these words:

The court’s decision or legislative changes do not alter the Lord’s doctrine that marriage is a union between a man and a woman ordained by God, at least for the time being. So be it.

- Peace unspeakable fell upon us; and each man in that sacred moment knew by the Holy Ghost that the saying was true.

- Wherefore, we lifted our hearts in solemn covenant to sustain that revelation, and to bear record that the voice we heard was the voice of the Lord.

- And thus we testify that revelation unto the Prophet and Apostles is a sacred process, yea, holy and luminous before God and angels forevermore, or until it is verily changed by continuing revelation, line by line and precept by precept. Nevertheless, Amen.

Just a little fun. Apologies in advance.

[MG 2.0]

They should write new revelations in the same majestic, soaring language as D&C 110 to give the impression that eternity has spoken.
*snip
Just a little fun. Apologies in advance.

There have been others that have had "a little fun" along the way. Starting back with some of the folks that followed Joseph initially, all the way up until now.

Regards,
MG

[Limnor]

There have been others that have had "a little fun" along the way. Starting back with some of the folks that followed Joseph initially, all the way up until now.

Fair enough. There’s definitely a long line of folks who’ve “had a little fun” with the voice of revelation—some more convincingly than others.

I’m just saying that the language of D&C 110 hits on something cosmic; it sounds like eternity clearing its throat.

It would definitely be more entertaining, though, if modern revelations came with that same thunder and poetry.

[MG 2.0]

There have been others that have had "a little fun" along the way. Starting back with some of the folks that followed Joseph initially, all the way up until now.

Fair enough. There’s definitely a long line of folks who’ve “had a little fun” with the voice of revelation—some more convincingly than others.

I’m just saying that the language of D&C 110 hits on something cosmic; it sounds like eternity clearing its throat.

It would definitely be more entertaining, though, if modern revelations came with that same thunder and poetry.

Possibly more entertaining, yes, One might ask whether God works nowadays through the '700 Club method' of preaching the word, or more through the 'still small voice' of personal revelation/inspiration. General Authorities of the LDS church often teach that God speaks not through the fire and the storm of 'hellfire and damnation' loud/raised voice type/kind of preaching which can be found in abundance, but through the quiet stirrings of the heart responding to the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

Similar to what we've discussed in relation to Alma 32.

Regards,
MG