Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_Kishkumen]

Yep, Hiram Page was married to a Whitmer sister.

I could not feel more satisfied and at rest, if the entire Whitmer family had testified.

[_Ceeboo]

Hi robuchan

I'm not too worried he's going to punish me for my sins. I see him pulling out a whiffle bat to paddle my butt while I stifle laughter like my mom when i was a kid.

Obviously, you're not at all familiar with the size of the whiffle bats in heaven.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_EAllusion]

If you are judging the relative strengths of Book of Mormon origin theories and one theory proposes that it is an ancient document that was translated via telepathic connection to a all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good diety interested in making this text available and understood to modern readers, it's not only appropriate to evaluate the reasonableness of that claim, it is necessary. When you propose a super-loosey-goosey translation process, that naturally brings up a divine hiddeness argument. The only thing the believer has got going for them there is this is just a very specific instance of a much broader problem that exists well beyond the Book of Mormon.

Most academics wouldn't want to touch such a supernatural claim. In addition to being outside of native disciplines, it's just uncomfortable. And a theory that says "and then a miracle happened" as its key point of explanation has no explanatory power, so it's a nonstarter anyway. So one would expect such theological questions to be punted.

[_Falcon A]

I have enjoyed all of this. It was up to 19 pages when I first opened it. Finally caught up (all links not included) and look forward to the next page.
This thread has everything that makes this my board of choice: Evidence that The Church isn't what it claims, wise cracks and smart-assery aplenty, Darth J, Runtu and a host of my favorite posters, occasional defense (like the 2013 Falcons), and other sacred reasons.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Truly a popcorn moment.

Carry on. :-)

...LDSFF o.m.g.

[_Equality]

So Joseph comes to the word and he's impressed that it's a big cat but no further specificity? God can't do any better than that?

It is especially odd when one considers that God was able to give Joseph Smith directly the English transliterations of supposedly Nephite words like cumom and curelom and Rameumptom and all sorts of place names and proper names and names for money that had no known English equivalents but God was not able to inspire Joseph with "mountain lion" or "tapir" or "jaguar."

[_Uncle Ed]

I decided I want to read all of it and highlight each Book of Mormon phrase as I go. Besides, I like physical books at bedtime. Lighted screens keep me awake.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1131086945/ref=ox_ya_os_product

[Guest]

What I think this book can show us is the KJV-influenced vernacular that had currency during Smith's day. A lot of the terminology shared by both books can be found in other publications from the same time period, although this book appears to have the highest concentration of non-KJV linguistic overlap. The Late War very well may have been read by Smith and/or Cowdery growing up (it became marketed as a textbook for children), or even around the time of the rendering of the Book of Mormon. They may have even made a conscious decision to pattern the flavor of the Book of Mormon language after this book. At this point, however, I don't see the relationship being much deeper than that.

What are the implications of this conclusion? It means, in my opinion, that the theory that the Book of Mormon was revealed letter-by-letter to Joseph Smith is significantly undermined, unless, of course, one wants to assert a very, very tight brand of accommodationism (God so adapted the language of his revelation to Smith's own culture, worldview, and personal lenses that he exactly mimicked the very kinds of phraseology he would have come up with). That begs the question in my opinion.

I am impressed by mak's estimation of the situation. Well done, mak!

That's curious, because prior to Late History being discovered, maklelan was quite sure that language patterns like the cognate accusative were not common to English or Joseph Smith's information environment.

It's not necessarily completely unique to Hebrew, but it is most common on Semitic languages, and it was not common to English literature in the 19th century and was certainly absent from Joseph Smith's literary vocabulary.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/444 ... in-hebrew/

Isn't it wonderful how the Book of Mormon's truth claims are so freely adaptable to the state of the evidence? And how the inability of anyone to proved a cogent explanation for the Book of Mormon's inconsistencies with said truth claims in no way affects knowing that it's true?

I'm looking for a metaphor to describe it.......moving the something posts........

It will come to me.

[_SteelHead]

So Joseph comes to the word and he's impressed that it's a big cat but no further specificity? God can't do any better than that?

It is especially odd when one considers that God was able to give Joseph Smith directly the English transliterations of supposedly Nephite words like cumom and curelom and Rameumptom and all sorts of place names and proper names and names for money that had no known English equivalents but God was not able to inspire Joseph with "mountain lion" or "tapir" or "jaguar."

How dare you deflate the "loose translation" craptheory with something as tenuous as logic and reason!

[_SteelHead]

.
.
.


That's curious, because prior to Late History being discovered, maklelan was quite sure that language patterns like the cognate accusative were not common to English or Joseph Smith's information environment.

It's not necessarily completely unique to Hebrew, but it is most common on Semitic languages, and it was not common to English literature in the 19th century and was certainly absent from Joseph Smith's literary vocabulary.

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/444 ... in-hebrew/

Isn't it wonderful how the Book of Mormon's truth claims are so freely adaptable to the state of the evidence? And how the inability of anyone to proved a cogent explanation for the Book of Mormon's inconsistencies with said truth claims in no way affects knowing that it's true?

I'm looking for a metaphor to describe it.......moving the something posts........

It will come to me.

Poor Mak.... pet theory deflated in a day.

[_Gadianton]

It is especially odd when one considers that God was able to give Joseph Smith directly the English transliterations of supposedly Nephite words like cumom and curelom and Rameumptom and all sorts of place names and proper names and names for money that had no known English equivalents but God was not able to inspire Joseph with "mountain lion" or "tapir" or "jaguar."

genius.

a devastating blow if I've ever seen one.