Ahhh crap...now my son doesn't want to go to Church!

[_wenglund]

Here is a similar, if not far worse "dilemma" to Cinepro's; my best friend has a 10-year-old son who recently informed him that he doesn't like to eat vegetables. As it turns out, my best friend doesn't like to eat vegetable either, but he faithfully eats them whenever his wife serves them (which is daily). Ohhh what are the parents to do? ;-)

Should they post their "dilemma" on a board predominated by vegetable critics and former vegetable eaters whose "moralizing" is somewhat akin to "let him eat cake"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I don't see this as a very good analogy. This is what asbestosman was doing earlier -- talking about things we force our kids to do that they don't want to do.

Eating their vegetables is something that we want them to do (even if some of us may not like salads -- I love 'em!) 'cause we want them to be healthy. Something that we think they do NOT derive value from we steer them away from.

When it comes to beliefs I can choose what my kids are exposed to. Will my kids derive value from hanging out with KKK members (it was born a county over)? I don't think so! Will my kids derive value from believing in the literal translation of the Bible? I do not think so! Cinepro mentioned chastity as important to him -- he wants his son to value that. Well, I am of the mind that I hope my kids have no indoctrinated guilt and shame about sexuality.

So, why force a kid to do something that the parent believes they derive no value from? You don't!

I think you are errantly presupposing "no value" in the minds of either or both parents. I presuppose otherwise, and as such, the analogy works. To each their own. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_antishock8]

Here is a similar, if not far worse "dilemma" to Cinepro's; my best friend has a 10-year-old son who recently informed him that he doesn't like to eat vegetables. As it turns out, my best friend doesn't like to eat vegetable either, but he faithfully eats them whenever his wife serves them (which is daily). Ohhh what are the parents to do? ;-)

Should they post their "dilemma" on a board predominated by vegetable critics and former vegetable eaters whose "moralizing" is somewhat akin to "let him eat cake"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. Not clever.

Perhaps to the humor impaired. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. 0-2.

[_Moniker]

Here is a similar, if not far worse "dilemma" to Cinepro's; my best friend has a 10-year-old son who recently informed him that he doesn't like to eat vegetables. As it turns out, my best friend doesn't like to eat vegetable either, but he faithfully eats them whenever his wife serves them (which is daily). Ohhh what are the parents to do? ;-)

Should they post their "dilemma" on a board predominated by vegetable critics and former vegetable eaters whose "moralizing" is somewhat akin to "let him eat cake"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I don't see this as a very good analogy. This is what asbestosman was doing earlier -- talking about things we force our kids to do that they don't want to do.

Eating their vegetables is something that we want them to do (even if some of us may not like salads -- I love 'em!) 'cause we want them to be healthy. Something that we think they do NOT derive value from we steer them away from.

When it comes to beliefs I can choose what my kids are exposed to. Will my kids derive value from hanging out with KKK members (it was born a county over)? I don't think so! Will my kids derive value from believing in the literal translation of the Bible? I do not think so! Cinepro mentioned chastity as important to him -- he wants his son to value that. Well, I am of the mind that I hope my kids have no indoctrinated guilt and shame about sexuality.

So, why force a kid to do something that the parent believes they derive no value from? You don't!

I think you are errantly presupposing "no value" in the minds of either or both parents. I presuppose otherwise, and as such, the analogy works. To each their own. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I certainly wasn't presupposing anything of the sort. I took your analogy and showed how it was silly. I mentioned what cinepro valued... how could I presuppose he doesn't value something when I mentioned what he did value in the Church? Get back to me with that, would you?

[_wenglund]

Here is a similar, if not far worse "dilemma" to Cinepro's; my best friend has a 10-year-old son who recently informed him that he doesn't like to eat vegetables. As it turns out, my best friend doesn't like to eat vegetable either, but he faithfully eats them whenever his wife serves them (which is daily). Ohhh what are the parents to do? ;-)

Should they post their "dilemma" on a board predominated by vegetable critics and former vegetable eaters whose "moralizing" is somewhat akin to "let him eat cake"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. Not clever.

Perhaps to the humor impaired. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. 0-2.

I see that the self-appointed scorekeeper lacks a sense of humor as well. LOL

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_asbestosman]

I think you are errantly presupposing "no value" in the minds of either or both parents. I presuppose otherwise, and as such, the analogy works. To each their own. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I certainly wasn't presupposing anything of the sort. I took your analogy and showed how it was silly. I mentioned what cinepro valued... how could I presuppose he doesn't value something when I mentioned what he did value in the Church? Get back to me with that, would you?

Cinepro may not believe all the claims about the church, but his wife seems to be in with it.

To hijack your analogy, what if the mother really liked and agreed with the KKK, but the father only liked a few aspects of it and only kinda disliked a few other things, but certainly didn't hate the KKK? Isn't that closer to Cinepro's situation?

[_Moniker]

I don't see this as a very good analogy. This is what asbestosman was doing earlier -- talking about things we force our kids to do that they don't want to do.

It adresses only one point, namely that a child's desire is insufficient to let him off the hook. I had thought that was a subpoint of dispute on this thread, but perhaps not.

for what it's worth, I think KKK point is good if kept within the boundaries you intended it: namely that we wouldn't force our kids into things we think are harmful. I think the point would be a bad one if we were to think that Cinepro views the LDS church the way we view the KKK.

Well, I don't understand the dispute at this point, apparently. I am not suggesting that Cinepro doesn't want his son to go to Church. I haven't said that, nor would I say that. I think it's up to the parents. I just keep replying to people that say we force our kids to do things that they don't want to do. Of course we do!!!! They are missing the point that as parents we only force our kids to do things that we feel they derive value from. Hence why I point out the absurdity of the analogy of eating veggies with indoctrinating a kid with a belief system.

[Guest]

I think you are errantly presupposing "no value" in the minds of either or both parents. I presuppose otherwise, and as such, the analogy works. To each their own. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I certainly wasn't presupposing anything of the sort. I took your analogy and showed how it was silly. I mentioned what cinepro valued... how could I presuppose he doesn't value something when I mentioned what he did value in the Church? Get back to me with that, would you?

Cinepro may not believe all the claims about the church, but his wife seems to be in with it.

To hijack your analogy, what if the mother really liked and agreed with the KKK, but the father only liked a few aspects of it and only kinda disliked a few other things, but certainly didn't hate the KKK? Isn't that closer to Cinepro's situation?

I'd tell cinepro to divorce the mother.

Easy peacy. ;)

~edited 'cause you're going to keep running with this, aren't ya?~

I wasn't trying to tie in the KKK with Cinepro's views on the Church. I wasn't equating the KKK with the Church -- I was merely pointing out that as parents we all choose what we want our kids to be indoctrinated with. It seems as though some just think Cinepro should force his son -- well, ONLY if Cinepro feels it would benefit his son. He apparently believes the Church will benefit his son, in some way. If he didn't he should attempt to discuss it with his wife and reach a mutual understanding. I hope that's clearer.

[_antishock8]

Here is a similar, if not far worse "dilemma" to Cinepro's; my best friend has a 10-year-old son who recently informed him that he doesn't like to eat vegetables. As it turns out, my best friend doesn't like to eat vegetable either, but he faithfully eats them whenever his wife serves them (which is daily). Ohhh what are the parents to do? ;-)

Should they post their "dilemma" on a board predominated by vegetable critics and former vegetable eaters whose "moralizing" is somewhat akin to "let him eat cake"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. Not clever.

Perhaps to the humor impaired. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ugh. 0-2.

I see that the self-appointed scorekeeper lacks a sense of humor as well. LOL

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

Here is a similar, if not far worse "dilemma" to Cinepro's; my best friend has a 10-year-old son who recently informed him that he doesn't like to eat vegetables. As it turns out, my best friend doesn't like to eat vegetable either, but he faithfully eats them whenever his wife serves them (which is daily). Ohhh what are the parents to do? ;-)

Should they post their "dilemma" on a board predominated by vegetable critics and former vegetable eaters whose "moralizing" is somewhat akin to "let him eat cake"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I don't see this as a very good analogy. This is what asbestosman was doing earlier -- talking about things we force our kids to do that they don't want to do.

Eating their vegetables is something that we want them to do (even if some of us may not like salads -- I love 'em!) 'cause we want them to be healthy. Something that we think they do NOT derive value from we steer them away from.

When it comes to beliefs I can choose what my kids are exposed to. Will my kids derive value from hanging out with KKK members (it was born a county over)? I don't think so! Will my kids derive value from believing in the literal translation of the Bible? I do not think so! Cinepro mentioned chastity as important to him -- he wants his son to value that. Well, I am of the mind that I hope my kids have no indoctrinated guilt and shame about sexuality.

So, why force a kid to do something that the parent believes they derive no value from? You don't!

I think you are errantly presupposing "no value" in the minds of either or both parents. I presuppose otherwise, and as such, the analogy works. To each their own. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I certainly wasn't presupposing anything of the sort. I took your analogy and showed how it was silly. I mentioned what cinepro valued... how could I presuppose he doesn't value something when I mentioned what he did value in the Church? Get back to me with that, would you?

Whether you correctly surmised your presupposition or not (you did presuppose "no value"--in fact you explicitely stated as much), were cinepro the only parent involved, and were the things you mentioned to have been an exhaustive list of values to cinepro in the case in question, then you may have a point (not to be confused with you imagining having shown my analogy was "silly"). However, if you look carefully at what cinepro has said, you will note the clear inference to another parent (his wife), and one may reasonably induce that she sees value in Church attendance (for herself as well as for cinpro and their children). And, also one may reasonably induce from cinepro's actions (i.e. continued attendnce at Church), that he see value in the attending Church, if nothing other than it makes his wife happy. So, in both respects, you don't have a point--at least not one that is pertinent or rational. Sorry. ;-)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_asbestosman]

I just keep replying to people that say we force our kids to do things that they don't want to do. Of course we do!!!!

But some here keep talking about respecting the child's desires about church attendance, or rather about respecting the child's own religious decisions. Should it even have been a factor? Should kids be allowed to make religious decisions (hold on here while I end up shooting myself in the foot when someone brings up baptism at 8 years old).

They are missing the point that as parents we only force our kids to do things that we feel they derive value from. Hence why I point out the absurdity of the analogy of eating veggies with indoctrinating a kid with a belief system.

Yes, I was missing that point (because I felt others had skipped that point too). Point scored. Can I get back to being a regular smartaleck? :)