Question for ex-mo's...are you untrustworthy?

[_truth dancer]

Another thing... what about garments.

My understanding that is if one is a former member they are asked NOT to keep the promise/covenant to wear them?

So, what, do the brethren get to decide what covenants former members must or must not keep to be considered trustworthy after one leaves the church?

;-)



~dancer~

[_skippy the dead]

Pa-pa - a couple of questions for you:

Are you referring specifically to the covenants made to not reveal the names and signs of the various tokens, or do you have something else in mind?

Who do you think the covenant is made with?

What level of disclosure do you think makes an ex-mo untrustworthy? If I discuss the temple rites with my never-mo husband, is that a violation that makes me untrustworthy in all respects? Or are you limiting your condemnation for those who post content on the internet?

I will never pass judgement on what a husband and wife discuss. I am talking about those who live to hurt the church and anyone who is a member of it.

You didn't answer any of my questions. They were serious queries. If it helps to focus, take away the marital communication aspect. Either substitute it with me having a conversation with a friend or something, or ignore it altogether. Can you please answer the other questions?

I do hope Pa Pa comes back to address my questions. My response depends on his clarification.

[_rcrocket]

Another thing... what about garments.

My understanding that is if one is a former member they are asked NOT to keep the promise/covenant to wear them?

So, what,do the brethren get to decide what covenants former members must or must not keep to be considered trustworthy after one leaves the church?

When do the "brethren" decide that former members are not to be considered trustworthy? Where can I read that? I'm sure Brigham Young had his moments on this topic, but anything in the past 100 years?

This "brother" thinks that it really matters not to me or my "brethren" whether you want to sing to the high sun the contents of the endowment. A portion was published by Orson Pratt in the Seer, an official Church organ in Washington D.C. (later disavowed when Pratt put some stuff in there about the nature of God which Young did not like), and the rest was published in many exposes since. I am not aware of a single instance in which we are told to "distrust" former members of the church.

I think that some former members are really rather foolish -- those who want to come back every day to throw turds on the roof of the local stake center while there are Scout activities and Relief Society humanitarian activities, as well as worship services going on. I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? Denigrating the faith of somebody else? Mocking? Piling on?

Suppose you went over to an anti-Semitic site (http://zionofascism.wordpress.com/, http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=422038) and piled on with mocking statements of the Jewish faith. How is that any different than what you are doing?

[_Dr. Shades]

I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? Denigrating the faith of somebody else? Mocking? Piling on?

No, we're merely discussing.

[_rcrocket]

I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? Denigrating the faith of somebody else? Mocking? Piling on?

No, we're merely discussing.

Oh, come on. This board is filled with mocking and often vulgar statements about the faith of many. How is this site any different than one devoted to Antisemitism? I mean, my own Jewish friends who are aware of the large anti-Mormon internet community remark on the fact that sites like yours are no different in terms of the toleration of another's sacred beliefs than sites devoted to antisemitism and denial of the Holocaust. You deny and mock the faith of so many who sacrificed their lives, property, possessions and families to attempt to create a Zion in America.

[_skippy the dead]

Odd how rcrocket equates the expression of ideas and opinions, and even rational discussion, with destructive acts of vandalism involving feces. It's that kind of hyperbole that has no credibility.

[_the road to hana]

I think that some former members are really rather foolish -- those who want to come back every day to throw turds on the roof of the local stake center while there are Scout activities and Relief Society humanitarian activities, as well as worship services going on. I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? Denigrating the faith of somebody else? Mocking? Piling on?

Suppose you went over to an anti-Semitic site (http://zionofascism.wordpress.com/, http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=422038) and piled on with mocking statements of the Jewish faith. How is that any different than what you are doing?

I can think of at least two distinctions offhand:

1) No one here, as far as I'm aware, is now or has been Jewish.

2) Judaism was not a religion created in the past two hundred years in the United States by a young man who at age 14 professed to have been visited by an angel and deity, and was involved in treasure seeking. Judaism is historically as much a race as it is a religion.

Since you're asking comparative questions, how is what people are doing in suggesting Mormonism is incorrect any different from General Authorities standing at the pulpit of General Conference asserting that other faiths are incorrect, or LDS missionaries going door-to-door doing the same?

[_the road to hana]

I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? Denigrating the faith of somebody else? Mocking? Piling on?

No, we're merely discussing.

Oh, come on. This board is filled with mocking and often vulgar statements about the faith of many. How is this site any different than one devoted to Antisemitism? I mean, my own Jewish friends who are aware of the large anti-Mormon internet community remark on the fact that sites like yours are no different in terms of the toleration of another's sacred beliefs than sites devoted to antisemitism and denial of the Holocaust. You deny and mock the faith of so many who sacrificed their lives, property, possessions and families to attempt to create a Zion in America.

At any time as a young LDS missionary did you mock or denegrate the faith of anyone else? At any time in your life have you done so? Have you conspicuously defended to a fault the faiths of all your ancestors, Mormon and otherwise? I assume since none of your ancestors could have been LDS prior to 1830, you had ancestors who were Protestant of various stripes, Catholic, Jewish and likely even pagan. Have you defended to a fault all those faiths, true to your ancestors and the sacrifices they made for their faith?

[_truth dancer]

When do the "brethren" decide that former members are not to be considered trustworthy? Where can I read that? I'm sure Brigham Young had his moments on this topic, but anything in the past 100 years?

I'm not sure if you have read this whole thread... The OP questioned if former LDS were untrustworthy because they often no longer feel it necessary to not discuss the temple rituals. I was pointing out that as far as I know the brethren ask that once one is no longer a member they no longer wear their garments (in essence telling former members NOT to keep that particular covenant). The brethren obviously do not suggest former members continue to keep the covenants they make, and as has been pointed out, this is really quite ridiculous.

This "brother" thinks that it really matters not to me or my "brethren" whether you want to sing to the high sun the contents of the endowment. A portion was published by Orson Pratt in the Seer, an official Church organ in Washington D.C. (later disavowed when Pratt put some stuff in there about the nature of God which Young did not like), and the rest was published in many exposes since. I am not aware of a single instance in which we are told to "distrust" former members of the church.

Did you read the OP? This whole thread is a discussion on whether or not former members are trustworthy or not. I'm glad you do not think they are.

I think that some former members are really rather foolish -- those who want to come back every day to throw turds on the roof of the local stake center while there are Scout activities and Relief Society humanitarian activities, as well as worship services going on. I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? Denigrating the faith of somebody else? Mocking? Piling on?

No, I do not think I am in any way denigrating the faith of somebody else. Discussing whether beliefs are true or not, challenging assumptions, sharing experiences, reviewing history, analyzing evidences, disclosing information etc. etc. doesn't equate to mocking another's religion.

in my opinion, the reasons for belief are fascinating and something in which I am very interested, whether the religion be the FLDS, House of Yahweh, Scientology or any other.

~dancer~

[_rcrocket]

Did you read the OP? This whole thread is a discussion on whether or not former members are trustworthy or not. I'm glad you do not think they are.

Yes I have read the whole thread. Perhaps you can provide support for your theory that the "brethren" don't think such persons are trustworthy. I'll grant you Brigham Young. Anybody else in the past 100 years?