Testing Stuff

[_just me]

Damn, did I kill the thread?

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Confirmation Bias is known as the "Holy Ghost" to Mormons.

[_Themis]

Damn, did I kill the thread?

No, it's just the weekend and a long one at that.

[_thews]

So the LDS position is this (it seems): Pray and see if God will "show" you truth.

It seems apparent to me many don't find that an adequate way to determine truth. Indeed most of the criticisms deal with scientific concepts or established rules of historic research. But how are the tools (scientific method and such) developed to figure out that which we can see, or detect going to translate to determine the existence of something we can't see or detect, like God?

To claim "scientific concepts" are the root of deciding what is true vs. what is false based on factual data is rather vague... don't you think? L. Ron Hubbard could be held to the same metric of what makes logical sense using your argument. The truth is the real metric for deciding what is true vs. what is false. If what can be proven false requires faith to attempt to make belief override logic, then your question is rooted in what you reject.

Things Stemelbow rejects:

1) The everlasting covenant requiring polygamy in heaven as translated by Joseph Smith.
2) Seer stones used to see evil treasure guardians (before the Book of Mormon) are not of occult magic.
3) Truth claims backed up by a failed attempt to translate a known hoax are not relevant.
4) Truth claims based on a completely incorrect translation from the pagan book of the dead are not relevant.
5) A prophet of God who publicly lies about what God revealed to him (regarding polygamy) is not relevant.

...correct me if I'm wrong.

[_Socrates]

So the LDS position is this (it seems): Pray and see if God will "show" you truth.

It seems apparent to me many don't find that an adequate way to determine truth. Indeed most of the criticisms deal with scientific concepts or established rules of historic research. But how are the tools (scientific method and such) developed to figure out that which we can see, or detect going to translate to determine the existence of something we can't see or detect, like God?

Do you ask that anyone else depend or trust your experience or your testimony? Your spouse? Your children? Anyone?

[_Themis]

Bump for stem. :)

[_stemelbow]

And how do you test the spiritual expereinces?

Its a good question and pardon the cop out of I don't think I cann put it into words, adequately. But that's how I feel. Not getting into the nitty gritty or attempting to mock the no pearls before swine teaching, I'll just have to say spiritual experiences are verified by more spiritual experiences. Thus, when I receive a spiritual experience, or when I have received particular ones in the past, I'm able to find verification of these by having them confirmed through more experiences that in some way confirm the messages received through the first. I truly do think this is a tough process.

What is the basis on how you determine what is true and false. Seems the biggest hurdle is how one would know that the expereinces is coming from a divine being. How do you determine this?

Another good question and one I don't think is easily resolved. In other words, I don't think its conclusively proven its from divinity. It takes faith. But the experiences to me are my faith, or what make up my faith--reason to trust.

Runtu is right that the spiritual is totally subjective and not really transferable. Scientific method is. If something is not reliable then it is eventually rejected. This is why carbon dating is still used and very realible, even though those using it have to do so within established means so as not to get incorrect results.

As I suggested earlier, yep. you have to follow certain processes to acheive correct results. that's what I try to do with the spiritual. I can only hope this helps explain myself.

[_stemelbow]

Stem, I want to know if the Book of Mormon is true. Please outline to me what steps I must take to learn if it is true or false. By true, I am assuming that we mean a true historical and spiritual record of the Nephites.

the method I find most reliable is found in Moroni 10.

[_Morley]

Stem, in your original post you said:

So the LDS position is this (it seems): Pray and see if God will "show" you truth.

You are now saying that doesn't work for everyone? Or that this may not be sufficient? Or that you don't know what's involved in the entire process? Please clarify.

[_stemelbow]

Do you ask that anyone else depend or trust your experience or your testimony? Your spouse? Your children? Anyone?

No. And I don't plan to make such a request.