Joseph Smith's Memory

[_why me]

Yep, just one of those things. Some days you wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Some days you just make mistakes. And some days you systematically, methodically deceive thousands of people about your late husband's activities so your son can become the head of a church that is largely based on the self-serving deceptions you are promulgating.

Just one of those things that sometimes happens in life. I mean, who on the board can honestly say that he or she hasn't perpetrated a massive religious fraud at some time or other?

In this case, it did happen. The polygamy lie got out of control and I don't think that she could put it back in the bottle. She should have but...didn't. There is a lesson here for all. A lie can lead to complications and ruined lives if the web grows and grows.

[_Madison54]

Yea, being chased out of communities, fearing persecution from mobs and eventually ending with the death of their two sons would be a real comfortable lifestyle. Don't you wish you had the same lifestyle? Poor Lucy.

Lucy actually lost 4 sons in Nauvoo and the last 3 within about a month of each other. Say what you want about crazy Lucy, but as a mother, my heart goes out to her for this great loss. I think she is a fascinating person to study.

[_why me]

Lucy actually lost 4 sons in Nauvoo and the last 3 within about a month of each other. Say what you want about crazy Lucy, but as a mother, my heart goes out to her for this great loss. I think she is a fascinating person to study.

You can tell that to Harold. He thinks that they all had a comfortable lifestyle. That was my point. They didn't.

[_Darth J]

That being the case, please explain why Emma didn't go to Utah, since the purported reason for the Brighamites heading west was to escape the persecution of which you speak.

I wonder why Emma didn't continue to be mobbed and persecuted when she remained in the territorial United States and still professed that the Book of Mormon was true and her late husband was a prophet. Feel free to explain that, too.

I believe that she left nauvoo and returned later when the smoke cleared.

I see. Looks like all you need to do is come up with some valid factual basis for your assertions and you're all set!

Who was going to mob her? The Mormons had left and no longer posed a threat to the nonmormons.

But the purported reason the Mormons were persecuted was their faith in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, both of which she promoted, which means she posed the same threat to the non-Mormons. So it's either (a) the persecution wasn't real, or (b) the persecution was based on something other than mere faith in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. You're all about consistent, coherent positions, Why Me, so I'm sure you'll articulate which option you prefer and stick to it.

And after losing her husband I am sure that the nonmormons did not care to bother her any more.

Which would mean that it was unnecessary for the Brighamites to flee to Utah, since Joseph Smith was dead. How are you sure of this, by the way? (Hint: this is where you indicate a verifiable factual basis for your assertion.)

Why didn't she go west? I think polygamy played a role but also life too.

Then why wasn't Emma destroyed for rejecting polygamy, which the Lord said would happen in D&C 132:54?

She wanted to stay where she was after being force to flee here and there.

But then why weren't the Brighamites also able to stay, since neither she nor the members of the RLDS Church were persecuted anymore, notwithstanding their faith in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon?

And who knows...maybe to be close to Joseph. I suppose that we will never really know.

Hmm. I guess her pattern of telling self-serving lies about her late husband in order to get her son made the head of the RLDS Church had nothing to do with it, huh?

[Guest]

Yep, just one of those things. Some days you wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Some days you just make mistakes. And some days you systematically, methodically deceive thousands of people about your late husband's activities so your son can become the head of a church that is largely based on the self-serving deceptions you are promulgating.

Just one of those things that sometimes happens in life. I mean, who on the board can honestly say that he or she hasn't perpetrated a massive religious fraud at some time or other?

In this case, it did happen.

Yep. It was just an accident or something.

The polygamy lie got out of control and I don't think that she could put it back in the bottle. She should have but...didn't. There is a lesson here for all. A lie can lead to complications and ruined lives if the web grows and grows.

So being that it is human nature to lie, and for those lies to grow and grow out of control until you can't retract the lies you have been telling for so long, and to her dying day Emma never recanted her lies, explain why the Three Witnesses never retracting their stories must mean that they were telling the truth.

[_Themis]

With Emma we know she has lied about Joseph, so she cannot really be trusted in this regards, especially if there is motivation for her to lie. Considering she wanted her son to be the prophet, she has good motivation to lie with everything about Joseph and the religion he created.

She lied about polygamy and this did have devastating effect. The lie got bigger and bigger until it got out of control. This can happen with a lie. And it happened to emma. She got caught out because such a lie could never be hidden. Her son joseph III found out that it was a lie too. But he most likely forgave his mother. He knew that his mother was suffering about his father's murder and the past persecution.

We are only human with human faults.

Ignoring all the assumptions you always like to make up, not to mention excuses, we agree that she did lie. This means she is very capable of lying with other issues regarding Joseph if she has motivations to do so.

[_Darth J]

If we can land a man on the moon, why can't we come up with an algorithm that prevents a chatbot from invariably refuting itself within two pages of the same thread?

[_why me]

Ignoring all the assumptions you always like to make up, not to mention excuses, we agree that she did lie. This means she is very capable of lying with other issues regarding Joseph if she has motivations to do so.

Everyone lies..thus, we can believe no one. Not a bad way to live if you think about it. However, one lie does not make a liar...if so, we are all liars.

[_Madison54]

Lucy actually lost 4 sons in Nauvoo and the last 3 within about a month of each other. Say what you want about crazy Lucy, but as a mother, my heart goes out to her for this great loss. I think she is a fascinating person to study.

You can tell that to Harold. He thinks that they all had a comfortable lifestyle. That was my point. They didn't.

I think Harold was referring more to Emma than to Lucy. Emma's lifestyle was much better in Nauvoo than it had been anywhere else she'd lived during her marriage to Joseph (other than his pesky habit of marrying and sleeping with other women, but then that was also going on before Nauvoo).

[_Themis]

Ignoring all the assumptions you always like to make up, not to mention excuses, we agree that she did lie. This means she is very capable of lying with other issues regarding Joseph if she has motivations to do so.

Everyone lies..thus, we can believe no one. Not a bad way to live if you think about it. However, one lie does not make a liar...if so, we are all liars.

Which is why I gave a criteria of how many decide what to believe, and why Emma cannot be trusted with certain issues where she demonstrates she will lie if she has motivations to do so. This is not true of everyone. Most people I know will actually tell the truth even when it will not benefit them. This is actually one of the criteria in establishing if one should be called a liar.