Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_Nightlion]

On another note I would like to scold DrW for badly misrepresenting the last days of the Jaredites when million of them were destroyed as he wrongly supposed, in a single battle. Please read the last two chapters of Ether and realize that the saga stretched over twenty years where every man woman and child was compelled to arm themselves and do battle to survive. The dead bodies were left unburied and covered the land. The entire population was living a war survival mentality as their only means of support and living for all that time. After twenty millions mighty men with their women and children were killed the battles rage on for years and then four more years were taken just to gather every living soul into one camp or the other. So after twenty some odd years there were so few that they had to hunt out of the rocks more people to add to their armies. Then long battles raged over the entire range of their nation North of the narrow neck of land....today's Ecuador and the Gulf of Guayaquil. Coriantumr takes time to recover of his wounds four times. And while he is recovering the people are constantly at war killing one another.

We have no idea how many were engaged in the final week of battle when they dwindled down to fifty and then only the last two, Shiz and Coriantumr.

Earlier in the Jaredite story when the drought brought up the poisonous serpents the people followed the path of their animals who went South to escape and devoured them. No more Elephants, cureloms and cumoms or swine and a lot fewer horses no doubt.

Nightlion,

If you will re-read the posts you are referring to here, you will see that I described the final conflict between the two Jaredite forces as a series of battles, commented on the logistics required for such a series of battles involving individuals in their millions, and provided a quote from Ether 15 as support.

Like I could find easily. The main point is that there never were millions in battle at any one time . That number came from looking back at years of war. If you were not suggesting the impossible logistics of millions all fighting at the same time, I scold you not no more.

[_Nightlion]

The caractors were not phonetic. The translation appeared to Joseph in English forhim tto pronounce. At lunch break .....later.

[_Dantana]

Well, since Ollie also claims that he was visited by P. J. and J., I tend to think that he was pretty much inonit.

How could Oliver not be "in on it"!

From the wiki-

Shortly before Cowdery died of a respiratory illness, he was visited by Jacob Gates, an early Mormon leader in the church, who inquired about his witness concerning the Book of Mormon. Cowdery reaffirmed his witness saying,[39][40]

"Jacob, I want you to remember what I say to you. I am a dying man, and what would it profit me to tell you a lie? I know,' said he, 'that this Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God. My eyes saw, my ears heard, and my understanding was touched, and I know that whereof I testified is true. It was no dream, no vain imagination of the mind—it was real".

There you have it! Well, unless of course 'Jacob Gates' recanted his testimony of Ollie's last testimony....

ETA.
Same wiki-

On March 3, 1850, Cowdery died in David Whitmer's home in Richmond, Missouri

Key metaphor- Foxes, Hen houses.

[_Shulem]

Or if Cowdery had the book and knew it and helped Joseph formulate the Book of Mormon. Remember, all we have is Cowdery's own words that he was translating. But what WAS really going on? There is no verifiable outside source or control over what they were rally doing at all. If Cowdery was in on it, so to speak, there is reason why he would never have admitted it. It would have destroyed his own reputation. He couldn't have gotten work since he was so dishonest. So yes the "official" discussion and description is Joseph dictating to Oliver, but what actually did happen, we can never know.

Oliver surely was into the whole deception scene with Joseph. Those two started the whole thing, pretty much. Oliver locked himself into the Mormon deception and there was no way out for him. Had he come clean and confessed that would have made him a marked man and someone who could never be trusted again with anything. Mormonism was ultimately his only out.

Paul O

[_robuchan]

What's the best way for amateur to do their own research for Book of Mormon text matching? Google advanced book search?

[_Shulem]

Nightlion,

If you will re-read the posts you are referring to here, you will see that I described the final conflict between the two Jaredite forces as a series of battles, commented on the logistics required for such a series of battles involving individuals in their millions, and provided a quote from Ether 15 as support.

You might as well talk to a brick wall because Nightlion isn't going to understand you. This is the guy who thinks he can read "it came to pass" in reformed Egyptian.

Gee, it's so obvious that the Book of Mormon war stories are a bunch of made up stuff by authors who were not qualified to give a reasonable accounting and description of actual war and the aftermath of those wars. The stories are totally lame and the archeological evidence left behind is absolutely nonexistent. Believing the Book of Mormon is all based in misplaced faith and has nothing to do with science or reality. It's those damn Jaredite barges that really stand out. That story isn't fit for a comic book it's so bad. Even when I was a TBM I never could really get myself to believe that story. It was just too much to take. Sigh.

Paul O

[_Bazooka]

The caractors were not phonetic. The translation appeared to Joseph in English forhim tto pronounce. At lunch break .....later.

Well, English and French, complete with spelling and grammar mistakes also found in identical passages in the King James Version of the Bible.
But don't let those little flecks get in the way of what you want to believe.

[_Always Changing]

What's the best way for amateur to do their own research for Book of Mormon text matching? Google advanced book search?

Have years and years of time to waste with few other distractions. Follow the research of others, and assess for yourself. Follow your own your leads and hunches, and don't make snap judgments. It helps if you like to read, and can read fast.

Otherwise, build competency with computer programming, and replicate the Johnson brothers' study.

[_Bazooka]

What's the best way for amateur to do their own research for Book of Mormon text matching? Google advanced book search?

Have years and years of time to waste with few other distractions. Follow the research of others, and assess for yourself. Follow your own your leads and hunches, and don't make snap judgments. It helps if you like to read, and can read fast.

Otherwise, build competency with computer programming, and replicate the Johnson brothers' study.

No, there's a quicker, more reliable technique.....

3. Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4. And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

[_Always Changing]

3. Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things,....by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That doesn't work, and it is an extremely lazy way to pretend to do it.

On the other hand some people think that I have turned up some things, using the "by perspiration and gut" method, that are incredible coincidences. I don't know, I just truck on, with occasional windfalls like what has happened here the past week. Now, do I attribute the whole board, or the posters?