Non-Celestial Posts "Dynastic Marriages-Doctrinal Quest

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_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

beastie wrote:
Plenty of ward websites exist without the bishop's cell phone number published on them. Why do you choose to publish yours?

If you are now having difficulties with it, why don't you remove it from the ward website, or have the number changed, or both?


To say nothing of the fact that Bob, as a lawyer, should know the steps to take to obtain the contact information from his cell phone company. A death threat via the phone is a criminal act.


Which is why Bob's claims make no sense.

Someone who is being stalked or harassed typically reacts by making their information less available, and not more.

I would take claims of stalking/harassment, cyber- or otherwise, seriously, and respond accordingly.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Yeah, I would say a lot of this doesn’t make sense. Liz offered to share with bob whatever information she had about who posted his private information, and he wasn’t interested? Someone makes “death threats” to his cell phone, and he not only continues to post his cell phone number but then provides links to even more information about who he is and where he lives?

This doesn’t sound like someone who is genuinely concerned for his or his family’s safety. It sounds like someone playing a game – a game in which information is presented with the intent to create malicious rumors about individuals. He’s done this, anyway. He accused Hana and me of “stalking” him. He now accuses me of saying vulgar things about his children. None of this is true – but he continues to repeat these accusations as if they are true and proven. The clear intent of this is to create false impressions among readers.

I think bob is just playing a game, and his personality traits result in the “game” taking unpleasant turns.

And his constant harping on the evils of anonymity – how can he imagine that this is a winning argument? It’s an obviously inane and vapid argument. The need for caution on the internet is well known, and encouraged by experts. Moreover, as I’ve pointed out before, “crocket” may as well be a pseudonym. In fact, I first thought it was. “Bob Crocket” is an unknown person to me, does not live in my community. I’m assuming he doesn’t live in ANY of our communities. So how can his behavior here have any impact on his reputation in real life? It doesn’t. THAT’S the risk of anonymity, and we see the effect in a big city. Human beings evolve to watch the behavior of those in their tribe in order to report and assess reliability. But when you’re not in your “tribe”, ie, your local community - your name is meaningless and the equivalent of a pseudonym, as far as whether or not local members of your community are watching you.

I have to admit I’ve even wondered if this poster really is who he claims to be. It’s hard to believe a trained lawyer with abundant experience could make such bad arguments.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

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_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

beastie wrote:I think bob is just playing a game, and his personality traits result in the “game” taking unpleasant turns.

And his constant harping on the evils of anonymity – how can he imagine that this is a winning argument? It’s an obviously inane and vapid argument. The need for caution on the internet is well known, and encouraged by experts. Moreover, as I’ve pointed out before, “crocket” may as well be a pseudonym. In fact, I first thought it was. “Bob Crocket” is an unknown person to me, does not live in my community. I’m assuming he doesn’t live in ANY of our communities. So how can his behavior here have any impact on his reputation in real life? It doesn’t. THAT’S the risk of anonymity, and we see the effect in a big city. Human beings evolve to watch the behavior of those in their tribe in order to report and assess reliability. But when you’re not in your “tribe”, ie, your local community - your name is meaningless and the equivalent of a pseudonym, as far as whether or not local members of your community are watching you.

I have to admit I’ve even wondered if this poster really is who he claims to be. It’s hard to believe a trained lawyer with abundant experience could make such bad arguments.


I would agree that he's playing a game, but not that he's not a real person, or who he claims to be.

At least one person on this board has claimed to live in his local community (GoodK) and been in his home, and I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that to be true.

Bob made a couple of critical mistakes early on. He laid claim to being a bishop, which is demonstrably true, and to the extent that he can be affected in his local community, it's that community, his ward, that I think would cause him the most problems. He has to wonder now as leader of that ward if he has members who lurk or post here, who know that their bishop also posts here. He's already claimed to have been called in by his stake president (whether true or not).

His other mistake was bringing attention to his profession and author status on a Mormon scholarship website.

I think it must be a real struggle for people, whether they're Daniel Peterson, William Hamblin, our friend Bob here, Julie or Pahoran on the other board, because one would like to use their real name and identity to lend a certain credibility to his or her own arguments, yet that has to be tempered by the desire for privacy and anonymity. People like Dan and Bill go full out in the open. Julie and Pahoran would prefer a greater level of anonymity. Ego can get in the way. Dan's a public figure in the BYU community and also a bishop of a local student ward. Bob happens to live in a different corner of the country, but still can be well known within his own community. The door can swing both ways for him, with full disclosure of his identity both helping him and hitting him in the backside.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I would agree that he's playing a game, but not that he's not a real person, or who he claims to be.

At least one person on this board has claimed to live in his local community (GoodK) and been in his home, and I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that to be true.


Unless the "real life" bob verified to the "real life" GoodK that he is, indeed, the poster crocket on this board, the fact that bob crocket is a real person doesn't mean this poster is the same individual.

I guess I continue to underestimate the power of religious persuasion on thought processes, but I really do have a hard time believing that a successful, intelligent attorney would post the things he does on this site. It's possible, but I keep the possibility open that this is someone posting AS the real bob crocket, but in a deliberately malicious way to harm the real bob's reputation. I admit that this is probably not the case, and it probably is the same person, and he just uses a different part of his mind to deal with his professional demands than he does to deal with religious demands, but I reserve the right to doubt - just in case.


Bob made a couple of critical mistakes early on. He laid claim to being a bishop, which is demonstrably true, and to the extent that he can be affected in his local community, it's that community, his ward, that I think would cause him the most problems. He has to wonder now as leader of that ward if he has members who lurk or post here, who know that their bishop also posts here. He's already claimed to have been called in by his stake president (whether true or not).


If this is the real bishop crocket, I don't think he cares at all. His arrogance is such that he believes in his own ability to discern who is really struggling, and who is just some closet vicious exmo, and he dispenses with the latter without a second thought. Closet vicious exmos aren't real people to him, just some foil to his imaginary heroic actions. So anyone who would have a problem with him posting here isn't worthy of his regard. I do believe that the poster crocket has, over the years he's posted here, manifested a personality trait that could dehumanize other people, if they're in the "wrong" tribe. The fact that he feels comfortable - in real life - telling people to get out of the church speaks VOLUMES about his personality, in my opinion.

His other mistake was bringing attention to his profession and author status on a Mormon scholarship website.

I think it must be a real struggle for people, whether they're Daniel Peterson, William Hamblin, our friend Bob here, Julie or Pahoran on the other board, because one would like to use their real name and identity to lend a certain credibility to his or her own arguments, yet that has to be tempered by the desire for privacy and anonymity. People like Dan and Bill go full out in the open. Julie and Pahoran would prefer a greater level of anonymity. Ego can get in the way. Dan's a public figure in the BYU community and also a bishop of a local student ward. Bob happens to live in a different corner of the country, but still can be well known within his own community. The door can swing both ways for him, with full disclosure of his identity both helping him and hitting him in the backside.


Bill and Dan don't have any choice, although Dan has tried to go by pseudonyms several times in the past. Dan, in particular, is too prolific with a recognizable style. And yes, they do want to utilize their prestige as high profile apologists on places such as MAD. I think that although he makes jokes about it, that Dan is actually hurt by the more mean-spirited things some exmos say about him. I mean, how could he not be? In the past he's seemed almost obsessive in reading and even collecting the insulting things exmos say about him.

Juliann's problem is that her own friends outed her long ago, and she also had a pivotal position in the formation of the FAIR board in the first place, and I'm sure also wanted to utilize that prestige.

If pahoran really wants anonymity, he's stupid. He should have started over with a new screen name, one that wasn't OPENLY and REPEATEDLY associated with his real name years ago. The fact that he never did leads me to believe he isn't really serious about wanting anonymity, and just uses any "outing" of his real name to express fake outrage at the immoral exmos. That is, after all, his calling card.

But bob, as far as I know, is fairly unknown as an apologist. He has two reviews on FARMS. Big whoop. So why the insistence on his real name, even at the cost of family risk? This is what keeps me open to the idea that the poster may not be the one and the same as the real bob. Again, I realize this is a small possibility, but I do regard it as a possibility.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

beastie wrote:I guess I continue to underestimate the power of religious persuasion on thought processes, but I really do have a hard time believing that a successful, intelligent attorney would post the things he does on this site. It's possible, but I keep the possibility open that this is someone posting AS the real bob crocket, but in a deliberately malicious way to harm the real bob's reputation. I admit that this is probably not the case, and it probably is the same person, and he just uses a different part of his mind to deal with his professional demands than he does to deal with religious demands, but I reserve the right to doubt - just in case.


Here's the difficulty. After I read his bio on his law firm's website, and asked him (the poster currently posting as "rcrocket") whether he had really, in fact, graduated summa cum laude from BYU, the bio was changed within 24 hours.

If he were not the real Bob Crockett, I doubt he could affect a change on the bio on that law firm's website.

I understand your doubt.

I think it makes more sense that the poster in question is under a great deal of pressure, and responds to it in this fashion that doesn't always make sense to a lot of the rest of us. Posting on discussion boards may be an outlet to relieve stress for some, and in that sense, recreational.

Just my take.

I'd be worried where he's heading, though. He seems to be on a journey somewhere, and hasn't quite arrived yet.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Oh, yes, I forgot that detail. You are absolutely right. That is definitive proof he's the real bob.

I think it makes more sense that the poster in question is under a great deal of pressure, and responds to it in this fashion that doesn't always make sense to a lot of the rest of us. Posting on discussion boards may be an outlet to relieve stress for some, and in that sense, recreational.


We're "second city" characters to him. It's a game, like second city. That's probably why he feels at liberty to exaggerate past insults to complete distortion, to the point where it becomes a lie.

In fact, he's the one who uses anonymity in an immoral fashion. He uses our anonymity as an excuse to treat us maliciously.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

beastie wrote:Oh, yes, I forgot that detail. You are absolutely right. That is definitive proof he's the real bob.

I think it makes more sense that the poster in question is under a great deal of pressure, and responds to it in this fashion that doesn't always make sense to a lot of the rest of us. Posting on discussion boards may be an outlet to relieve stress for some, and in that sense, recreational.


We're "second city" characters to him. It's a game, like second city. That's probably why he feels at liberty to exaggerate past insults to complete distortion, to the point where it becomes a lie.

In fact, he's the one who uses anonymity in an immoral fashion. He uses our anonymity as an excuse to treat us maliciously.


I would agree completely. To him, it is Second Life.
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_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I would agree completely. To him, it is Second Life.


Yeah, THAT game, "second life". (guess I revealed how out of THAT loop I am by calling it second city...)

My sons used to play one of those games, can't remember the name. They say that some "characters" are out and out criminals, rapists, murderers on the game, and it's creepy. I guess, for some folks, it's a way to channel their darker impulses.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

beastie wrote:
We're "second city" characters to him. It's a game, like second city. That's probably why he feels at liberty to exaggerate past insults to complete distortion, to the point where it becomes a lie.

In fact, he's the one who uses anonymity in an immoral fashion. He uses our anonymity as an excuse to treat us maliciously.


Maybe we are Second City characters.

Mr. Scratch: Count Floyd
Merc and B&L: the Schmenge Brothers
charity: Edith Prickley
Runtu: Bobby Bittman
rcrocket: William B. Williams
Cogs: Sid Dithers
Liz: Tawny Beaver ("that's 'bevay,' Floyd")
Doctor Steuss: Ed Grimley
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Maybe we are Second City characters.

Mr. Scratch: Count Floyd
Merc and B&L: the Schmenge Brothers
charity: Edith Prickley
Runtu: Bobby Bittman
rcrocket: William B. Williams
Cogs: Sid Dithers
Liz: Tawny Beaver ("that's 'bevay,' Floyd")
Doctor Steuss: Ed Grimley


The sad thing is that I'm either too old or too uncool to recognize any of those characters. Sigh. Church Lady is the last one I recognize, and I'd vote for charity on that one, too.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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