Atheists have better sex lives | Daily Mail

[_Hoops]

Well, there ya go.

I'm not sure "where I go." I substituted the word Knowledge for information. Reasonably so. You said more information is always better. And you backtracked from that - which is an arbitrary position. So, .... huh?

I'm still waiting for an argument that shows why those rules aren't an arbitrary construct. Asserting "they aren't arbitrary" doesn't constitute an argument.

I've given you them. Simply: because there are consequences that can be harmful. That is not an arbitrary position.

I didn't need you to confirm that you didn't understand my argument. That was already painfully obvious.

FYI: "arbitrary" is not synonymous with "stupid."

Try forming an actual argument. I understand those just fine.

That's funny... I was thinking the same about you. Go figure

I learn more and more everyday. Quite a ride.

[_Some Schmo]

Well, there ya go.

I'm not sure "where I go." I substituted the word Knowledge for information. Reasonably so. You said more information is always better. And you backtracked from that - which is an arbitrary position. So, .... huh?

I'm still waiting for an argument that shows why those rules aren't an arbitrary construct. Asserting "they aren't arbitrary" doesn't constitute an argument.

I've given you them. Simply: because there are consequences that can be harmful. That is not an arbitrary position.

I didn't need you to confirm that you didn't understand my argument. That was already painfully obvious.

FYI: "arbitrary" is not synonymous with "stupid."

Try forming an actual argument. I understand those just fine.

That's funny... I was thinking the same about you. Go figure

I learn more and more everyday. Quite a ride.

Well, it's obvious I'm not going to get anywhere with this conversation. Either your reading comprehension leaves way too much to be desired, you suffer short term memory loss, or you're simply dishonest.

Whatever, man. Enjoy your arbitrarily self-assumed religious guilt. Who am I to stop you from making yourself feel bad over made up BS? It's your life. I'd pity you, but you pity yourself enough for the both of us. Pitiful. Isn't religion just grand?

[_Jason Bourne]

Ok

Here are some additional thoughts or perhaps a summary.

First personally this is a difficult issue for me. Perhaps that is due some what to the heavy 1970s indoctrination on the evils of abusing sexual powers and how it was the third worst sin next to murder, one would be better dead than lose their virtue outside of marriage, once you sin virtue cannot be restored, the pain of repentance and that patch over the hole left from the sin must be at least as large as the sin and sex sin leaves a big hole, if you sin sexually you should marry the person you sin with so you do not carry that sin into another relationship, who would want a licked cup cake and on and on.

Some will say the Church did not teach this and it was the opinions of men. Well some of it came from LDS manuals and conference talks. Some of it was from books from leaders (Miracle of Forgiveness mainly) and so on. But never the less it was what I got from the organization called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint. Was I as a boy from 10-20 years of age during the 70s not to take this seriously?

So you think it might be hard to purge such nonsense out of me? Much if it is still integrated.

So Hoops basis his position mainly on the premise that God commands restriction on sexual activity to married persons. I understand this wholly and think there are some decent reasons for abiding to this. Among them are:

1: Unplanned pregnancy. We all have to admit that as wonderful as sex is its first purpose is to create babies. There are major problems that come to us and society as w result of unplanned pregnancies. Schmo makes some reasonable arguments about risk and responsibility and I think they are reasonable for persons who make the choice to be sexually active outside of marriage. The problem is often people are not responsible especially young persons. How do you teach a youth to not be sexually active till they are responsible enough to be so and smart enough to take the steps to avoid getting pregnant:

2 Emotional bonds-there was a link above to an article that discussed this. I think it made some valid arguments. I guess Schmo would chalk that up as another one of the risk/rewards that comes with being sexually active.

3 Baggage from prior relationships when you finally find the one you commit to the rest of your life. I think this can be a very real problem. Spouses may feel inadequacy, wonder if they measure up to former lovers, question whether their spouse is still fantasizing about a former lover, wonder if their spouse is reluctant to try something sexual if they are that way because they are bored or have "been there and done that" so the relationship they have now is not interesting, new or exciting. And what if a former lover lives in the area, is still in the spouses life and so on? I think that creates some real tinder box problems for the other spouse. What if one spouse has never been with anyone else and waited and the other did not? This can create some real problems as well.


Now that said, if I take the religious issues out I really can see that it may eliminate some of these issues above. There have been times I have wondered why sex is such a big deal. I mean it is wonderful and all but it is still just a physical act. Why is a passionate kiss less serious than intercourse? Is is out puritanical nature that comes out?

I guess if I take the religious restrictions away the position I could get to is sex between consenting adults is probably ok. I think by adults I think 18 or older and probable in the 20s is better. I also believe there should be at least a committed steady relationship and I totally am opposed to one night stands or friends with benefits. Birth control is a must as is disclosure of any STDs on person or the other may know they have before any sex in entered into.

I can understand that persons can come to this type of position on this issue especially without the religious restrictions.

[_Some Schmo]

I liked your summary, Jason. I just want to comment on this:

3 Baggage from prior relationships when you finally find the one you commit to the rest of your life. I think this can be a very real problem. Spouses may feel inadequacy, wonder if they measure up to former lovers, question whether their spouse is still fantasizing about a former lover, wonder if their spouse is reluctant to try something sexual if they are that way because they are bored or have "been there and done that" so the relationship they have now is not interesting, new or exciting. And what if a former lover lives in the area, is still in the spouses life and so on? I think that creates some real tinder box problems for the other spouse. What if one spouse has never been with anyone else and waited and the other did not? This can create some real problems as well.

I think this could potentially be a real concern for some, but my initial reaction is to think, "Why would someone marry another when the sex wasn't the best with that partner?" I mean, that why I'm advocating for premarital sex in the first place, so that you go into marriage knowing what you're getting yourself into intimacy-wise.

I think much of this potential problem could be minimized with healthy communication. People shouldn't be afraid to tell their partner what they like and don't like, and they should regularly compliment their partner on the satisfaction they get from it. I personally have no problem with doing that. My wife deserves to know, and she is without a doubt the most compatible lover I've ever had (I did go through a very promiscuous period in my early twenties, so I have enough experience to feel good about telling her how great she is).

Communication should happen up front, too, before the marital commitment happens. If both partners don't disclose the gist of their sexual history prior to marriage, well, they're starting off the relationship on the wrong foot anyway (as poor/dishonest communicators). Their problems go deeper than sexual incompatibility. People shouldn't be finding out the partner is/isn't a virgin after the vows are made no matter what.

So, I guess I would say open communication is part of what entails a healthy, responsible relationship between adults. Number 3 on your list should never be a problem after the vows are made. If it is, it's a case of people rushing irresponsibly into marriage before they were ready.

[_Some Schmo]

First personally this is a difficult issue for me. Perhaps that is due some what to the heavy 1970s indoctrination on the evils of abusing sexual powers and how it was the third worst sin next to murder, one would be better dead than lose their virtue outside of marriage, once you sin virtue cannot be restored, the pain of repentance and that patch over the hole left from the sin must be at least as large as the sin and sex sin leaves a big hole, if you sin sexually you should marry the person you sin with so you do not carry that sin into another relationship, who would want a licked cup cake and on and on.

I meant to comment on this too.

I have a brother who bought into this stuff too, and it has been nothing but a source of pain for him his entire adult life. He's no longer Mormon, but he still considers himself a christian, and although he understands this stuff is bunk intellectually, he can't seem to get past it emotionally. He's still single in his late 40's, and still feels guilt contemplating having unwed sex. It's inconceivable to me. I've heard him mention the "sex is next to murder" thing several times, and I weep a little for him every time I hear it.

Believing there's a god who frowns on unwed sex has to be one of the most perverse, destructive teachings I can imagine. Observing my brother's experience with it, I think it's almost criminal to teach that crap, at least to the youth who don't have the experience to process it for what it is: complete rubbish.