Mormonism is not "Christianity"

[_cksalmon]

by the way, does anyone dispute that Christianity was also influenced by paganism?

Yeah, sure. I'll so dispute, if only for fun, if we can agree upon the points at which Christianity was first and fundamentally influenced by Judaism, without reference to 'paganism,' such that the two are distinct.

[_beastie]

Yeah, sure. I'll so dispute, if only for fun, if we can agree upon the points at which Christianity was first and fundamentally influenced by Judaism, without reference to 'paganism,' such that the two are distinct.

What if the Judaic influence was also influenced by paganism?

[_Kishkumen]

All I can say is, "well argued, Jack."

[_malaise]

The biggest problem with the arguments in this thread is that many people have gotten too caught up in semantics and lost the real substance of the debate. It makes no sense to ask whether certain groups (for example, Pentecostals) are "Christian " and work out what we mean when we use that term in our vague everyday speech. The reason that it makes no sense is that definitions are not true or false in any sort of substantive sense, they are merely terms that we can use to make distinctions between various things and groups of things. My point in the OP is that Mormonism is substantively different from the "Christianity" that we are all familiar with, and Mormons have attempted to latch onto the fundamentally meaningless term "Christian" in order to make people lump them in with those other religious groups instead of questioning their bizarre doctrines. And yes, I do think that there are very clear similarities between Catholics and various protestant groups. Their theology differs on some key points, but they fit into the same family. Mormonism goes off into a weird land filled with space gods and a mysterious star named kolob.

[_Simon Belmont]

My point in the OP is that Mormonism is substantively different from the "Christianity" that we are all familiar with

Well, you are wrong. If by "we all" you mean to include everyone, then Mormonism is certainly the Christianity that I am familiar with.

[_Hoops]

And this is what you base your "lying" charge? Pathetic.

I did allow that there were 3 options. ONe of which is that you are lying.

Just what does it mean, that LDS don't just "leave it at that"?

It means that LDS works are certainly part of their equation, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

[_Hoops]

Milesius rejects trinitarianism. Does or does that not eliminate him as qualifying as a Christian?

It does not.

It is a subset of Pentecostalism.

It your view. In a categorical view. In the interest of discussion if often is. But it's rejection of the Trinity means that it is not a Christian denomination. In this case, from what I can tell, it's the only point at which it deviates. But an important point nonetheless.

And I wonder how much you understand Mormonism. The rites are only required for the HIGHEST degree of glory. Resurrection into the lower degrees of heaven do not require any rites performed.

Hell, does anybody? CAn anyone make sense of this doctrine?

Those would roughly correspond to the Christian idea of "heaven."

Very roughly. Gravelly, wool-like, jaggedly. So rough that there really isn't much comparison at all. The Bible is very clear (as is the passage upon which this LDS doctrine is based): there is one heaven and one hell.

[_Hoops]

This is my first real Hoops experience, so I'm learning. It's been, well, "interesting". Scare quotes intended.

Good luck on getting an answer.

This is my first real Beastie experience. It's been, well, "interesting". Same quotes intended. But, I've seen her kind many, many times before. I used to work with them, and it was a thrill a minute, for sure.

[_Hoops]

Hoops, for example, if I can sort through the coy ambiguity, seems to offer the following definition of Christian: one whose sins are forgiven. I assume this forgiveness comes through acceptance of the atonement of Christ. (I'm sure Hoops will say I have this all wrong, and am lying to boot.)

No, I would not say you're lying. I would say you misunderstand, though. Yes, a Christian is one whose sins are forgiven. It is by the power of Christ that this occurs. I don't know that acceptance of the atonement in the sense that I think you mean it has much to do with it at all.

It seems to me that if a religion teaches that Jesus Christ's atonement is the only way to reunite human beings to God, and teaches utilizing the power of the atonement to engage in personal repentance, then that is a Christian religion

Of course. I don't know what you mean by "utilizing the power" but in a broad sense, yes. However, if a religion does not teach who Jesus really is, then it is teaching a lie. It is teaching non-Christian.

even by Hoops' definition.

Really?

Mormonism certainly does that. And yet it isn't enough.

It certainly does not. It has taken God and morphed him into something unrecognizable when viewed through Christian orthodoxy.

[_Hoops]

[/quote]

Well when I say Jesus Christ as the Son of God I don't have anything other than Jesus is the Father's Son. But if you'd press me I don't see why I'd suggest the Father only has one son.[/quote]
Would you also say Jesus is The Son of Man?