Kwaku on the Offensive Against Radio Free Mormon!

[Philo Sofee]

Atlanticmike
Household of faith? I'm in my mid 40s and as a Mormon I've never considered Christians or Catholics part of my "household". Infact, quite the opposite, especially Catholics. As a Boy Scout while at summer camp we took great pride in beating the living crap out of the Methodist and Baptist troops in competitions. To us they were apostates. There was a Presbyterian preacher who handed out anti Mormon flyers to his congregation that explained what Bible verses to use when confronting Mormons. As Mormon teenagers, we poured grass killer on his lawn and spelled out "Devil". Another time we went into the crawl space of his house and put dead fish in the air ducts. We would toilet paper the house of anyone who spoke out against Mormonism and felt justified in doing so. As Mormon young men, we took pride in being modern day danites. Basically, deep down, I think the overwhelming majority of Mormons believe that "Christians" aren't actually "real" christians because the Christ they follow isn't a true representation of the living Christ. Mg2.0, are you saying that Mormons don't believe Christianity is an apostate version of the true gospel? I bet kwaku does.

MG reminds me of that little blonde at the Joseph Smith Foundation. Just terrified about being real with it like you are here. I can't recall doing stuff like you claim to have done, but the attitude was the same because that IS how we were taught to think. MG can confabulate all he wants, we all know better. Mormons are special chosen, all the way up to their deaths, and the real special imagine their 2nd anointing Godifies them here and now, and if MG thinks that gives them more humility, he continues to lie to himself as his church has taught him is proper. His continual faking it is one reason he simply isn't taken seriously. He imagines this group is as dumbed down as the chapel Mormons he lives among and worships with. He apparently cannot grasp that is just not so. Mormons have never been savvy how the rest of the world actually does see and think about them.

[Shulem]

My understanding was that apostate Christendom was all an abomination. The Book of Mormon spelled out: "Church of the Devil". The teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith rang loud and clear in stating that those who belonged to the Church of the Devil could not exercise real faith like we do in Mormonism because WE are of the blood of Israel and only WE know how to have proper faith that is acceptable to the Lord and only WE know how to build temples and what they are for. The household of faith was exclusive to the restored Church and the other religions didn't know how to have proper faith which leads to proper baptism and all that jazz.

The Church today is shifting and finding new ways to shake off the old rhetoric and make friends with old enemies. That is actually a positive thing and we should support that. In this regard Mormonism is improving and moving towards a better way.

[Atlanticmike]

Atlanticmike
Household of faith? I'm in my mid 40s and as a Mormon I've never considered Christians or Catholics part of my "household". Infact, quite the opposite, especially Catholics. As a Boy Scout while at summer camp we took great pride in beating the living crap out of the Methodist and Baptist troops in competitions. To us they were apostates. There was a Presbyterian preacher who handed out anti Mormon flyers to his congregation that explained what Bible verses to use when confronting Mormons. As Mormon teenagers, we poured grass killer on his lawn and spelled out "Devil". Another time we went into the crawl space of his house and put dead fish in the air ducts. We would toilet paper the house of anyone who spoke out against Mormonism and felt justified in doing so. As Mormon young men, we took pride in being modern day danites. Basically, deep down, I think the overwhelming majority of Mormons believe that "Christians" aren't actually "real" christians because the Christ they follow isn't a true representation of the living Christ. Mg2.0, are you saying that Mormons don't believe Christianity is an apostate version of the true gospel? I bet kwaku does.

MG reminds me of that little blonde at the Joseph Smith Foundation. Just terrified about being real with it like you are here. I can't recall doing stuff like you claim to have done, but the attitude was the same because that IS how we were taught to think. MG can confabulate all he wants, we all know better. Mormons are special chosen, all the way up to their deaths, and the real special imagine their 2nd anointing Godifies them here and now, and if MG thinks that gives them more humility, he continues to lie to himself as his church has taught him is proper. His continual faking it is one reason he simply isn't taken seriously. He imagines this group is as dumbed down as the chapel Mormons he lives among and worships with. He apparently cannot grasp that is just not so. Mormons have never been savvy how the rest of the world actually does see and think about them.

I love Mormonism! But I truly believe this new push to look more like all the other Christian denominations will be a major blow to church membership. I don't like being called a Christian. I'm Mormon. I don't even mind being called a saint. But I grew up believing Mormon meant more good. It pisses me off that most of the Mormons I know are perfectly fine with Pres. Nelson asking us to strike the word Mormon from our vocabulary. And I mean really pisses me off!!

I believe Mormonism, more than any other religion has the ability to spread a positive message and draw new members in by revamping the gospel message. We need to stop knocking on doors and start having Sunday service in high school stadiums once in a while. Open the churches up and start using the kitchens again so we can have neighborhood cook outs. As a ward, we need to make an effort to find non members who need financial help and turn their lives around one by one. We could do that by donating a vehicle, buy an a/c unit for an elderly couple, remodeling an unusable kitchen or bathroom, repairing a leaky roof. I get pissed off everytime I pull in the church parking lot because the land/building are never used to spread the gospel message. We could do weekly food pantries in the church parking lot. During the week the building could be used as an outreach center. Basically, we need to stand out. We need to be seen as unique, compassionate, caring and practice what we preach. And for Christ sake! Hire a band every once in a while so members can enjoy something new, I'm getting tired of singing the same hymns. And having groups like Fair and other apologist groups is just a big xxxxing waste of time. All they're doing is giving people like RFM & John Dehlin ammunition to fire at the church. The church needs to engage the critics positively and kill them with kindness. Invite them to events, outings and ask for their help in finding people who need help no matter their religious beliefs. The leaders need to take off the expensive suits and put on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and get their non calloused hands dirty. People are desperate to find a positive community that they can feel a part of. And I really do feel like Mormonism has a strong foundation that can be built upon if we can just let go of the past and stop worrying about what a bunch of whiny little xxxholes think about us.

[Physics Guy]

As a Boy Scout while at summer camp we took great pride in beating the living crap out of the Methodist and Baptist troops in competitions. ... As Mormon teenagers, we poured grass killer on his lawn and spelled out "Devil" ... we went into the crawl space of his house and put dead fish in the air ducts. We would toilet paper the house of anyone who spoke out against Mormonism and felt justified in doing so.

Basically, we need to stand out. ... The church needs to engage the critics positively and kill them with kindness. Invite them to events, outings and ask for their help in finding people who need help no matter their religious beliefs.

I understand that you've grown out of the first attitude into the second. But see, I can't remember meeting any other religious groups that have that violently tribal attitude even as teenagers. None of the youth groups I was in ever put fish in anyone's air ducts. Maybe Mormonism does have a unique opportunity to spread a positive message, but if so it also seems to have a uniquely difficult heritage to live down first.

Among the distinctive features that do make Mormonism stand out, several are theocratic, authoritarian, tribalistic. I don't see how Mormonism is going to spread a positive message in the modern world without eliminating those elements. How much distinctive in Mormonism would really be left without them, though? That's the big question.

[MG 2.0]

Atlanticmike
Household of faith? I'm in my mid 40s and as a Mormon I've never considered Christians or Catholics part of my "household". Infact, quite the opposite, especially Catholics. As a Boy Scout while at summer camp we took great pride in beating the living crap out of the Methodist and Baptist troops in competitions. To us they were apostates. There was a Presbyterian preacher who handed out anti Mormon flyers to his congregation that explained what Bible verses to use when confronting Mormons. As Mormon teenagers, we poured grass killer on his lawn and spelled out "Devil". Another time we went into the crawl space of his house and put dead fish in the air ducts. We would toilet paper the house of anyone who spoke out against Mormonism and felt justified in doing so. As Mormon young men, we took pride in being modern day danites. Basically, deep down, I think the overwhelming majority of Mormons believe that "Christians" aren't actually "real" christians because the Christ they follow isn't a true representation of the living Christ. Mg2.0, are you saying that Mormons don't believe Christianity is an apostate version of the true gospel? I bet kwaku does.

MG reminds me of that little blonde at the Joseph Smith Foundation. Just terrified about being real with it like you are here. I can't recall doing stuff like you claim to have done, but the attitude was the same because that IS how we were taught to think. MG can confabulate all he wants, we all know better. Mormons are special chosen, all the way up to their deaths, and the real special imagine their 2nd anointing Godifies them here and now, and if MG thinks that gives them more humility, he continues to lie to himself as his church has taught him is proper. His continual faking it is one reason he simply isn't taken seriously. He imagines this group is as dumbed down as the chapel Mormons he lives among and worships with. He apparently cannot grasp that is just not so. Mormons have never been savvy how the rest of the world actually does see and think about them.

When I’m referring to the household of faith in my conversation with ceeboo I am suggesting that all the believers in Christ together constitute a universal household, the great family of God. Now, do we disagree on important doctrines, practices, and authoritative foundations? Yes. But that doesn’t mean we cannot work together as fellow Christians to promote goodness, charity, and love throughout the world. Personally, I don’t see where Jesus Christ would have it any other way.

But people do. And that’s unfortunate.

Have there been and do there continue to be members of the LDS church that are full of themselves in thinking that they are somehow better than their fellow Christians when it comes to being good people? Sure. Did you and Atlantic Mike fall into that trap? Apparently so.

Truthfully, I think the current generation of LDS members are doing a much better job at being Christian, in the true sense of the word, than previous generations. We’ve had to learn to cool our jets and realize that, yes, we may have certain truths that we have chosen to live by, but day to day we are all part of the family of God. And with our Christian brothers and sisters part of the great household of believers in Jesus Christ.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I can't remember meeting any other religious groups that have that violently tribal attitude even as teenagers.

I grew up in Southern California. Our LDS youth, I can say with a surety, did not act out in a tribal superiority fashion.

None of the youth groups I was in ever put fish in anyone's air ducts. Maybe Mormonism does have a unique opportunity to spread a positive message, but if so it also seems to have a uniquely difficult heritage to live down first.

Atlantic Mike may have been prone to acting out in inappropriate ways. Some youth act as hooligans, others don’t.

Among the distinctive features that do make Mormonism stand out, several are theocratic, authoritarian, tribalistic. I don't see how Mormonism is going to spread a positive message in the modern world without eliminating those elements. How much distinctive in Mormonism would really be left without them, though? That's the big question.

Yes, the LDS church is built upon a theocratic structure. The thing is, in a world of shifting values, many of them in opposition to the teachings of the gospel/church, the theocratic structure has served the church well. Having a culture where members know that in certain respects they are setting themselves apart from the worldly influences that are prevalent acts as a motivation to adhere to the commandments and seek discipleship as they follow Jesus Christ. It is a unique culture in that respect.

Regards,
MG

[Atlanticmike]

MG reminds me of that little blonde at the Joseph Smith Foundation. Just terrified about being real with it like you are here. I can't recall doing stuff like you claim to have done, but the attitude was the same because that IS how we were taught to think. MG can confabulate all he wants, we all know better. Mormons are special chosen, all the way up to their deaths, and the real special imagine their 2nd anointing Godifies them here and now, and if MG thinks that gives them more humility, he continues to lie to himself as his church has taught him is proper. His continual faking it is one reason he simply isn't taken seriously. He imagines this group is as dumbed down as the chapel Mormons he lives among and worships with. He apparently cannot grasp that is just not so. Mormons have never been savvy how the rest of the world actually does see and think about them.

When I’m referring to the household of faith in my conversation with ceeboo I am suggesting that all the believers in Christ together constitute a universal household, the great family of God. Now, do we disagree on important doctrines, practices, and authoritative foundations? Yes. But that doesn’t mean we cannot work together as fellow Christians to promote goodness, charity, and love throughout the world. Personally, I don’t see where Jesus Christ would have it any other way.

But people do. And that’s unfortunate.

Have there been and do there continue to be members of the LDS church that are full of themselves in thinking that they are somehow better than their fellow Christians when it comes to being good people? Sure. Did you and Atlantic Mike fall into that trap? Apparently so.

Truthfully, I think the current generation of LDS members are doing a much better job at being Christian, in the true sense of the word, than previous generations. We’ve had to learn to cool our jets and realize that, yes, we may have certain truths that we have chosen to live by, but day to day we are all part of the family of God. And with our Christian brothers and sisters part of the great household of believers in Jesus Christ.

Regards,
MG

You see, I understand what you're saying and I agree that is how Mormons view Christianity now, but that's not how we viewed it growing up in the 80s & 90s. Uumm, we were the "true" Christians and the Baptist, Presbyterians, methodists, Lutheran's and especially the Catholics were being deceived by the devil. There's no trap my man. That's what i was taught.

I liked women way to much when I was a teenager so I didn't go on a mission.
So let me ask you this. On your mission, if you knocked on a door and a fellow believer in Christ answered (christian), did you turn and walk away? If not, why? I'll tell you why. Because as far as we are concerned, our church is the only church on Earth that has the authority to baptize people and start them on the correct path to live again with our heavey father. According to our doctrine, Christianits aren't going to be viewed any different than Muslim during the resurrection and judgement.
Question. if we are the only true and Living Church on the face of the Earth does that mean other Christian denominations are dead?

[Dr Exiled]

Question. if we are the only true and Living Church on the face of the Earth does that mean other Christian denominations are dead?

Yes, but that cannot be admitted openly. Humble superiority means that, golly shucks, all churches have really good things gosh darnit, but, humbly, we Mormons think we have something super duper and we definitely don't think we are superior (that reveal comes over time as the new member catches the drift). So, come check it out. BYU looks like it has a good football team again and so there must be something to us.

[Atlanticmike]

I can't remember meeting any other religious groups that have that violently tribal attitude even as teenagers.

I grew up in Southern California. Our LDS youth, I can say with a surety, did not act out in a tribal superiority fashion.

None of the youth groups I was in ever put fish in anyone's air ducts. Maybe Mormonism does have a unique opportunity to spread a positive message, but if so it also seems to have a uniquely difficult heritage to live down first.

Atlantic Mike may have been prone to acting out in inappropriate ways. Some youth act as hooligans, others don’t.

Among the distinctive features that do make Mormonism stand out, several are theocratic, authoritarian, tribalistic. I don't see how Mormonism is going to spread a positive message in the modern world without eliminating those elements. How much distinctive in Mormonism would really be left without them, though? That's the big question.

Yes, the LDS church is built upon a theocratic structure. The thing is, in a world of shifting values, many of them in opposition to the teachings of the gospel/church, the theocratic structure has served the church well. Having a culture where members know that in certain respects they are setting themselves apart from the worldly influences that are prevalent acts as a motivation to adhere to the commandments and seek discipleship as they follow Jesus Christ. It is a unique culture in that respect.

Regards,
MG

Personally, I think it's inappropriate to walk onto private property and knock on someone's door to try to convince them their religious views aren't correct. And by the way, if you went on a mission, you participated in tribal superiority even though you haven't realized it yet.

I'll admit it, I was a hooligan as a youth. Still am. Difference between you and I is I can admit it.

[The Stig]

When I’m referring to the household of faith in my conversation with ceeboo I am suggesting that all the believers in Christ together constitute a universal household, the great family of God. Now, do we disagree on important doctrines, practices, and authoritative foundations? Yes. But that doesn’t mean we cannot work together as fellow Christians to promote goodness, charity, and love throughout the world. Personally, I don’t see where Jesus Christ would have it any other way.

But people do. And that’s unfortunate.

Have there been and do there continue to be members of the LDS church that are full of themselves in thinking that they are somehow better than their fellow Christians when it comes to being good people? Sure. Did you and Atlantic Mike fall into that trap? Apparently so.

Truthfully, I think the current generation of LDS members are doing a much better job at being Christian, in the true sense of the word, than previous generations. We’ve had to learn to cool our jets and realize that, yes, we may have certain truths that we have chosen to live by, but day to day we are all part of the family of God. And with our Christian brothers and sisters part of the great household of believers in Jesus Christ.

Regards,
MG

You see, I understand what you're saying and I agree that is how Mormons view Christianity now, but that's not how we viewed it growing up in the 80s & 90s. Uumm, we were the "true" Christians and the Baptist, Presbyterians, methodists, Lutheran's and especially the Catholics were being deceived by the devil. There's no trap my man. That's what i was taught.

I liked women way to much when I was a teenager so I didn't go on a mission.
So let me ask you this. On your mission, if you knocked on a door and a fellow believer in Christ answered (christian), did you turn and walk away? If not, why? I'll tell you why. Because as far as we are concerned, our church is the only church on Earth that has the authority to baptize people and start them on the correct path to live again with our heavey father. According to our doctrine, Christianits aren't going to be viewed any different than Muslim during the resurrection and judgement.
Question. if we are the only true and Living Church on the face of the Earth does that mean other Christian denominations are dead?

I served my mission in the middle of the Bible Belt of the U.S. By MG's logic, there was no need for my mission to exist, it seems.