why me wrote:...if clinton had won and if the choir would have been invited to sing, would you support their refusal to perform because of her stance on late term abortion? ...
Yes, I would support that decision, and so would you. I suspect you and most members of the church would be calling her a hero for standing up for her principles and being a good example of church behavior..
No. However, it would be politically incorrect to refuse. And accusations would fellow such a refusal. I think that you know this. The choir would be called racist, woman hating, etc and any member who refused would be ignored by the media unless they could make hay from it.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
It's different because Trump ran a hate campaign instead of a "hope" campaign.
Where was the hate? What did he say that was hateful? Have secure borders with a wall? Is that hateful? It was actually Clinton's idea. He borrowed it from her. Unbelieveable right? Watch this speech by her:
Isn't life amazing? Physical barriers if necessary. But no hate accusation about her.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote: The media released a tape that was made twelve years ago three weeks before the election. They had the tape since August when Billy Bush made a comment that there was a tape. NBC did a massive search and uncovered it. Luckily, many people saw it for what it was: a hit piece. Many criminals have come from south of the border. What to do? True, Trump made a general comment. However, since that remark, illegals have committed murder and rape.
He did not mock disabled people. The hand gestures that he used, he used quite often in various of circumstances unrelated to disability. See below:
He used the same expressions many times before the accusation of mocking a disabled person.
White is black. Up is down. War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Freedom is Slavery.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
COSTELLO: Your Facebook position was pretty harsh, you said the choir is endorsing, quote, tyranny and fascism by performing for this man. do you regret those words? CHAMBERLIN: Not one bit. I totally understand the position of the church and the choir. They are goodwill ambassadors to send hope and love and support to others regardless of political party. And I understand that. What I’m seeing is this goes far beyond any past inaugural situation. I am seeing very similar parallels of fascism, and others see it too. The thing I see in fascism is you have—someone finds a cause that gains people’s trust and sympathy, they find a target to attack, they find military and financial support. I’m seeing the criticism of Mexicans and Muslims, the requirement of Muslims to have to sign on registry, that deeply concerns me. COSTELLO: There’s been no decision made on any kind of registry for Muslims, i just want to clarify that. But Hitler? CHAMBERLIN: Okay, thank you. COSTELLO: Some people say you’ve compared Mr. Trump to Hitler and that just sounds kind of hysterical and over the top. CHAMBERLIN: I don’t feel hysterical. I feel quite calm as I observe from my personal opinion and have received thousands and thousands of posts and e-mails of support, the concern that people have is they love the choir and they feel that they are giving an endorsement without meaning to, that they support very vile practices and positions that goes against their conscience and it goes against mine as well.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
Can't find the reference right now. If I recall correctly, the Huff Post reported (or perhaps blogged) within the last few days that the MoTab Choir would not be performing at the inauguration, and that Trump is not happy about it.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Chamberlin sees the choir's singing for Trump as a betrayal of Mormon values -- and she's right. The President-elect, with his bigotry and braggadocio, personifies nearly everything the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or LDS, teaches against. Not only is the choir damaging its reputation by participating in the inauguration, it risks offending members of the increasingly diverse Mormon Church.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Can't find the reference right now. If I recall correctly, the Huff Post reported (or perhaps blogged) within the last few days that the MoTab Choir would not be performing at the inauguration, and that Trump is not happy about it.
It's still being widely reported that they are performing. Of course, The Church has once again managed to self manipulate into a lose-lose situation because the 15 old white men in Salt Lake City have not the first clue how to run the Church within the principles and morals they expect their members to uphold. Shambolic ineptitude.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
Chamberlin sees the choir's singing for Trump as a betrayal of Mormon values -- and she's right. The President-elect, with his bigotry and braggadocio, personifies nearly everything the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or LDS, teaches against. Not only is the choir damaging its reputation by participating in the inauguration, it risks offending members of the increasingly diverse Mormon Church.
I referenced that earlier (it's on the previous page of the thread) and yes, it's a good article.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
I have a question wrote: It's still being widely reported that they are performing. Of course, The Church has once again managed to self manipulate into a lose-lose situation because the 15 old white men in Salt Lake City have not the first clue how to run the Church within the principles and morals they expect their members to uphold. Shambolic ineptitude.
Okay. Now I gotta' go find the reference.
Be back as soon as I do.
Thanks, IHAQ.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Here is someone who backs Why Me's position. Irony at it's best.
I could not sign the petition in good faith, though, because I believe Donald Trump and the values of Mormonism do, in fact, align. Since its very founding and continuing over time, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) has perpetuated in policy and action, as has Donald Trump, numerous forms of oppression, and in terms of LDS, most notably sexism, heterosexism, racism, and anti-Jewish oppression.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson