honorentheos wrote:Revolutions, movements that change the fabric of society, don't require a competent leader. They just need oxygen and fuel. The movement is the heat. Sanders is providing the fuel in the form of a movement and means to gain power. He will have executive power and will make big changes.
I agree with the first part of this, but the last part doesn't follow. He does have a decent sized group of ardent followers, but nowhere near the number he needs to start a real revolution.
Without a revolution, he's another grumpy, long-time politician in office trying to pass a bill or two, with the added bonus of some obnoxious online followers.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Ok. Pick one Sanders initiative and I'll lay out my concerns with how a socialist executive should cause us to hesitate on ceding them power using it as an example sometime this weekend.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Jersey Girl wrote: Me too. I do think his stuttering gets in the way at times but I want to know if EAllusion has been seeing something more alarming recently that I haven't.
I don't have one single video that is a smoking gun, but rather an accumulation of memory lapses, inability to follow through an argument within a series of sentences, word-finding problems, etc. It's very stark when you compare him to 8 years ago. It's an open secret that he's losin' it. If you do a search for Biden and dementia, you'll find numerous examples of this, but any one video could just be a cherry-picked one-off. It's the accumulative effect that is concerning.
The media is going to cover this at some point, and because Trump gets ridiculously biased coverage in his favor that whitewashes his own mental problems, the effect is going to be giving voters a choice between someone who appears to have dementia and Donald Trump.
Thanks EA. Last week I did watch videos of him from previous years and yes, there is a difference now.
ETA: I don't believe that Sanders can beat Trump. That's a concern.
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
honorentheos wrote:Ok. Pick one Sanders initiative and I'll lay out my concerns with how a socialist executive should cause us to hesitate on ceding them power using it as an example sometime this weekend.
Universal health care.
And I'll just say up front, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out I share some of your concerns. The devil is certainly in the details. As I said, I consider most of Sanders' rhetoric to represent aspiration. He hasn't really provided details.
At the same time, it's not healthful to assume the best or worst and give it more weight than all the other possibilities (I say this largely because I have to keep reminding myself).
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Countries that have universal healthcare have healthcare that is both better, over all, and more affordable than generally available in the USA. I don't think there is any getting around that fact. Even some third world countries like Cuba have better and more comprehensive healthcare than this country. Even the fact that the most advanced American healthcare (for the few lucky or rich enough to take full advantage of it) is probably unexcelled and perhaps even unmatched anywhere else in the world does not change that reality. It may not be reasonable to expect to achieve universal healthcare all at once or as fast as Bernie Sanders is proposing, but I think it is a goal worth pursuing as fast as we can manage to achieve it.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Jersey Girl wrote:ETA: I don't believe that Sanders can beat Trump. That's a concern.
I don't know about that. So far, polls of head to head comparisons with Trump show that either Sanders or Biden would beat Trump. I just hope that enough people see through the massive disinformation campaign the GOP is bound to mount to prevent that from changing.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
honorentheos wrote:I wanted to touch on this again, too.
Some Schmo wrote:My view of Bernie has always been the view of a smart marketer: start outrageously high and then reduce what you want to make people think they're getting a deal. Another way to put that is that he's going way left to shift (correct) the Overton Window in the US.
I don't think there is any reason to imagine Bernie is a smart marketer. He is an ideologue whose appeal to many people is his refusal to change to accommodate other views. I don't get why so many people want to ignore what he says for what they think he is saying.
Like Trump...
Sanders has been a pragmatic Senator, though. It's not really accurate to say he has refused to compromise or accommodate other views. His voting record belies that. When campaigning he's been an uncompromising ideologue. That's true. The question I have is more how his most ardent followers react when campaign Bernie goes back into governing Bernie mode. My guess is that his cult of personality smooths that over, but I think it's an open question.
Warren is the one with the history of finding any angle possible to work a system to achieve the outcome she is after. Sanders is more of a compromising institutionalist. I think this is a reason to prefer Warren insofar as she has the right aims, but Sanders is different than his appeal.