Yes, I am indeed that person you in real life. And you are correct. Most of the reason I'm posting here is related to the BR and RFM podcast. They are both great guys, but there were just a few aviation details that I was cringing at while they were talking. I do not fault them on this, because they are not pilots, but after two hours of listening and not being able to respond at all, I felt somewhat compelled to come here and get my thoughts out.
Also, I am in no way attempting to defend Nelson's obvious and later embellishments. The engine did not explode. The plane was not on fire.
BUT!!!! In the moment all of this was happening, I DO believe it was a harrowing experience. The hears of all of the passengers were likely racing. Every little sound the plane was making was probably exacerbated in their minds. And I most certainly believe that the experience cause Nelson to reflect on his life and his family in those few minutes between engine shutdown and the safe landing on the runway at Delta Airport. I am sure everyone on board breathed a heavy sigh of relief when they got out of the airplane. I am sure that whether it was "technically" an emergency or not, they all sure felt like it was an emergency.
And then over time, the story evolved, and grew and became more than it was and more than it needed to be. The lesson he was trying to teach could have been taught with an oil leak, or a flaming engine.
That's all well and good, but the first time he told the story (on record) was a few months after the flight. Most of his embellishments were in place by then.
Hello Mr. Stig. Are you referring to his autobiography? Is there more about the incident than appears in the preface?
Thanks.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
Performing the emergency descent maneuver does not create any risk.
It does if you’re exceeding the max speed for the aircraft’s design. The story included a ‘death spiral’, an engine fire blowout achieved through a dive, and then a hard pull up to avoid crashing. All I’m saying is if a pilot is executing an emergency landing that requires the aircraft to get to the ground in the shortest possible time within the structural limits of the aircraft the implication is it’s going to be way more notable than a precautionary landing with a function engine working properly.
The right engine was probably running rough, the pilot shut it down, feathered the prop (so it doesn’t create turbulence, or at least reduces it), compensated for a bit of yaw, and then decided to land at Delta as a precaution. There is absolutely nothing there that’d require a hard enough bank to get the aircraft down in the shortest possible time in order to avoid a disaster that wasn’t happening. In other words, you’re not going to create an extra stress on the craft, crew, or passengers when all you need to do is essentially smoothly fly into Delta. There was literally no reason to do anything other than to easy peasy gently land at Delta.
That's all well and good, but the first time he told the story (on record) was a few months after the flight. Most of his embellishments were in place by then.
Hello Mr. Stig. Are you referring to his autobiography? Is there more about the incident than appears in the preface?
Thanks.
Perhaps my memory is faulty (like Nelson's)? Now I need to go track down one of the timelines of the stories.
Hello Mr. Stig. Are you referring to his autobiography? Is there more about the incident than appears in the preface?
Thanks.
Perhaps my memory is faulty (like Nelson's)? Now I need to go track down one of the timelines of the stories.
Please don't do it on my account. I'm not questioning the accuracy of your description. I've been waiting for someone to find and examine the autobiography to see if there is anything about the incident other than what it says in the premise. I was hoping maybe you had.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
I am in no way suggesting that the pilot exceeded the airspeed limits for the decent. A textbook emergency decent presents NO risk.
I am suggesting that what I believe was likely the relatively close proximity to the airport turns would have required some turns for the descent. And gvien that one engine was inop, a reasonable non-pilot passenger would have interpreted this as a "death spiral" in the excitement of the moment.
The engine was not on fire. (but I do think it was leaking oil)
And there was no need to bank up hard right before landing. That's a silly exaggeration.
Those are most certainly fabrications based on the facts as in understand them.
I see, and welcome to the forum. Your input is really appreciated. I recommend reading through the thread, there’s a lot of good ‘discovery’ going on with regard to Russell M. Nelson’s story. At the very least it’s a good take how a group of people can collaborate and fact check an outrageous claim.
Perhaps my memory is faulty (like Nelson's)? Now I need to go track down one of the timelines of the stories.
Please don't do it on my account. I'm not questioning the accuracy of your description. I've been waiting for someone to find and examine the autobiography to see if there is anything about the incident other than what it says in the premise. I was hoping maybe you had.
Well, it made me curious, and I think you may be correct. I stand corrected on my previous statement on the timing of the introduction of the embellishments. Nevertheless, that he was even relying on the 'experience' from the flight as justification for his autobiography is a bit of a dramatic move on his part, but not as bad as I might otherwise have thought.
Thank you for the welcome post. This has been a fun situation to examine in detail. And you are right, I do have the benefit of hindsite here, and I greatly appreciate all the work that so many here have done to dig into all of the details.
azflyer,
Apologies to you and Mr. Stig for any unwarranted assumptions on my part as to your reasons for posting here.
Mr. Stig's avatar has become the first one I notice as soon as a new screen comes up. The original British Stig character is one I've admired over the years via satellite TV, especially overseas. The original UK Top Gear was one of those rare TV shows that transcended language and cultural differences (even in near eternal rerun) and was one you could count on having access to almost anywhere you could find TV satellite dish.
Sounds like a weird question, but do you happen to know your Mr. Stig well enough to take him flying, and can he fly in real life as well as he drives on TV?
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous." (David Hume)
"Errors in science are learning opportunities and are corrected when better data become available." (DrW)
Please don't do it on my account. I'm not questioning the accuracy of your description. I've been waiting for someone to find and examine the autobiography to see if there is anything about the incident other than what it says in the premise. I was hoping maybe you had.
Well, it made me curious, and I think you may be correct. I stand corrected on my previous statement on the timing of the introduction of the embellishments. Nevertheless, that he was even relying on the 'experience' from the flight as justification for his autobiography is a bit of a dramatic move on his part, but not as bad as I might otherwise have thought.
I can’t keep track of the changes in my head. I always have to look at a chart. And I think someone on MD&D found versions in addition to the ones we have.
he/him we all just have to live through it,
holding each other’s hands.
Thank you for the welcome post. This has been a fun situation to examine in detail. And you are right, I do have the benefit of hindsite here, and I greatly appreciate all the work that so many here have done to dig into all of the details.
azflyer,
Apologies to you and Mr. Stig for any unwarranted assumptions on my part as to your reasons for posting here.
Mr. Stig's avatar has become the first one I notice as soon as a new screen comes up. The original British Stig character is one I've admired over the years via satellite TV, especially overseas. The original UK Top Gear was one of those rare TV shows that transcended language and cultural differences (even in near eternal rerun) and was one you could count on having access to almost anywhere you could find TV satellite dish.
Sounds like a weird question, but do you happen to know your Mr. Stig well enough to take him flying, and can he fly in real life as well as he drives on TV?
We definitely know each other well enough that he could take me flying, but I don't know how to fly! My dad was a commercial pilot for 30 years (DC-3, Fokker F-27, DC-9, MD-80, B-757), though.
I too love the original Top Gear, hence the username and avatar.
